jlancasterd Posted July 8, 2008 Share #41 Posted July 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) I'm speculating that the new one won't have any aberrations - it will be highly corrected like the 50/1.4 ASPH. And where's the charm in that? It will be just like a faster 50 ASPH, and nothing like the current Noctilux. How do you know? If Leica wants to produce a new lens with a similar 'signature' to the old, it's surely just an exercise in computation? Any changes will almost certainly be directed towards eliminating the need for special glasses, and might involve aspherical elements produced by the less expensive methods developed since the original Noctilux was designed - but that wouldn't necessarily imply that the new lens will draw in the same way as the Summilux, if the designer doesn't want it to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 8, 2008 Posted July 8, 2008 Hi jlancasterd, Take a look here New Noctilux will be launched.... I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
marknorton Posted July 8, 2008 Share #42 Posted July 8, 2008 The new one would only take 18 days to cool off??? if I remember correctly, the old one would take more than a year. Yes, I am sure it was 18 months that the glass had to be cooled over to anneal it properly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizard Posted July 8, 2008 Share #43 Posted July 8, 2008 And considering the CV Nokton 1.2/35. Maybe not in the quality stratosphere like the Noctilux, but high-class imaging, pleasing aberrations as well, DOF and subject isolation in the same order albeit less extreme, very characterful and at a price of 600$, .... Jaap, where can you get a Nokton 1.2/35 for just 600 $ ? It is close to 900 $ even at cameraquest ... Regards, Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saloti Posted July 8, 2008 Author Share #44 Posted July 8, 2008 I agree that quality has something to do with price. The materials that are used in the manufacture of a Noct are not cheap. They also do not sell a lot of them, so they do not have the scale of economy on their side (but they woudl sell more if it was cheaper). But Leica has gone off the rails even if you take all of the above in to consideration. They have priced themselves out of the market and above the cost of materials etc involved in the manufature of their goods. Well, if you take in to account that they have been on the verge of going out of business for the past 20 years and almost ate it for good it last year, I would have to say that their business model is not working out all that well. Leica needs to revamp the way they produce their goods. The new Summarit lenses are a perfect example of how to do this. By sharing components across several lenses they can lower costs, while maintaining quality. Currently pretty much all other Leica lenses are one off designs. They don't share any components, which drives up costs in regards to everything from training people to assemble and service the lenses to stock piling spare parts etc. It's a ridiculous situation and it boggles the mind that no one over there has cut through this crap and straightened this out, after all of this time. Leica better get their act together and they better do it fast. The world economy is going to get very ugly in the enxt few years and they need to get lean and mean to survive. Thrid, I very much agree. If Leica products were only luxury goods such as Louis Vuitton or Benthley, I would not worry about pricing. In that case they easily could put the Noctilux at 10.000,- €. However, Leica products go beyond pure luxury, which basically plays in the world of intangible values. Leica stands for tangible values/assets, their products are "technical". And - there are a lot of people out there, including many in this forum, who own Leica products although they do not belong to the top ten percent income segment. At the same time we can observe a consumer mega-trend, each day : available income is shrinking dramatically since months because of different marco-economic conditions (subprime mortgage crisïs, oil price explosion, exploding health and social cost, exploding food cost, etc.) Many companies are struggling right now because their sales are going down as a consequence of this, their consumers simply cannot afford their products any more. Price points further polarize. Leica is well advised to take into account this development and offer high quality products at more resonable prices, this concerns the M-system as well. They have done a first right step with the Summarit lens line, further initiatives will have to follow. With regard to a new Noctilux my advice would be to basically keep the price of the old one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted July 8, 2008 Share #45 Posted July 8, 2008 How do you know?I don't - I said that I was speculating in the quote you posted! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
offshore Posted July 8, 2008 Share #46 Posted July 8, 2008 Yes, I am sure it was 18 months that the glass had to be cooled over to anneal it properly. 18 months is curing time and I wasn't specific enough in my statement. The glass cools down in the molds for 18 days then is removed to cure. Sorry for the confusion. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 8, 2008 Share #47 Posted July 8, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jaap, where can you get a Nokton 1.2/35 for just 600 $ ? It is close to 900 $ even at cameraquest ... Regards, Andy Sorry, confused, it was indeed 900$ = 600 Euro. Nevertheless my argument holds... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted July 12, 2008 Share #48 Posted July 12, 2008 18 months is curing time and I wasn't specific enough in my statement. The glass cools down in the molds for 18 days then is removed to cure. Sorry for the confusion. Not at all. Interesting facts. Thanks. Rolo edit: does that mean that a replacement Noctilux had to be committed to production 18 months ago for it to appear at Photokina ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP3 Posted July 13, 2008 Share #49 Posted July 13, 2008 The era of Leitz Glass Lab was well passed. Solm now largely employs catalog stock glass from various glass house worldwide. I tend to believe the new Noct is no exception to Solms current production strategy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter_n Posted July 13, 2008 Share #50 Posted July 13, 2008 Kyocera Optec and Hoya being two examples. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdap@mac.com Posted July 13, 2008 Share #51 Posted July 13, 2008 How do you know? If Leica wants to produce a new lens with a similar 'signature' to the old, it's surely just an exercise in computation? Any changes will almost certainly be directed towards eliminating the need for special glasses, and might involve aspherical elements produced by the less expensive methods developed since the original Noctilux was designed - but that wouldn't necessarily imply that the new lens will draw in the same way as the Summilux, if the designer doesn't want it to. Not necessarily so. The current Noctilux was always built from special glass, and always built in Canada. The characteristics that we know and love so much are not as a result of design alone. The reason that the Noctilux has not been made in Germany is that the use of the special Noctilux glass was and is illegal to be used in Germany (according to their version of our EPA). The Noctilux is a very special lens that is special as a result of both glass and design. The current model is from the Mandler school of design, many for the military. This school is gone, and replaced by great optics, but not the same signature. I have used the Noctilux (both designs) from when the 1.2 was introduced. I shoot fashion and the current designs are not for me; they are too sharp, too contrasty, and too corrected-brilliant lenses, but not for me. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
newyorkone Posted July 14, 2008 Share #52 Posted July 14, 2008 I'm coming into this rumor quite late and my initial reaction was, Why!? with everything on Leica's plate would they invest precious time, energy and resources into making a replacement Noctilux. Surely there must be more pressing projects...R9/DMR replacement, M8 version II or whatever incarnation the digital RF will take, fast wide angle primes, etc. But as I thought about it more and more, it is beginning to make sense to me. If the new Noctilux turns out to be a reality then Leica will have pulled off one of the biggest, David besting Goliath, upsets of all time. The new Noctlilux might not be practical according to any kind of business analysis or number crunching on paper, but the excitement that it will elicit from the photography world will be priceless. And those who have forgotten who Leica is will suddenly and very seriously take notice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALUX Posted July 14, 2008 Share #53 Posted July 14, 2008 ... The reason that the Noctilux has not been made in Germany is that the use of the special Noctilux glass was and is illegal to be used in Germany (according to their version of our EPA). ... Hmmm... and how do you explain the fact that this very special Noctilux glass has also been used in the Extender-R 2x, which was made in Germany. Best regards Alex Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddp Posted July 15, 2008 Share #54 Posted July 15, 2008 The reason that the Noctilux has not been made in Germany is that the use of the special Noctilux glass was and is illegal to be used in Germany (according to their version of our EPA). The Noctilux is a very special lens that is special as a result of both glass and design. The current model is from the Mandler school of design, many for the military. The Noctilux was made at ELCAN, which produced military spec Leica lenses if I'm not mistaken - that may be more the reason why the Noctilux was made in Canada. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 15, 2008 Share #55 Posted July 15, 2008 Leitz Canada did produce military stuff, the 180 3.4 apo R for instance was developed as a surveillance lens, but offered in two versions, one, of slightly simpler optical design as an el-cheapo military one and one for the general public. The cameras for the military - now highly sought after, were pulled off the normal production line and engraved. Leitz Germany produced plenty of military items as well. It was, afer all, the height of the Cold War. The reason that the Canadian plant was started was quite simple: in their wisdom, strategic planners had designated Germany as a nuclear battlefield, to be given up as a wasteland in time of war. So Ernst Leitz decided to safeguard the Leica heritage and sales channels to the American continent by moving across the ocean. The USA were deemed too vulnerable to a nuclear attack as well, politically, so Canada was chosen. The decisions as to what was to be produced where was normally taken on base of production efficiency and the availability of key personell. The Noctilux glass was produced in Germany, originally in the Leica Glass Lab, later by Schott. The problem now is, as with the Tri-Elmar, that Schott does not do these special glasses any more. Leica did look to other suppliers, but the only one they could find (in Japan) produced to a far too low tolerance, causing extremely high numbers of rejects, thus holding up production at a time that all capacity was needed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
budrichard Posted July 15, 2008 Share #56 Posted July 15, 2008 A new Nocti will be a great marketing tool! If and only if the performance of this lens is a significant change, I will purchase one. The performance of the current Noctilux does not match my ASPH lenses and it doesn't matter to me what the aperature is, if it is not up to the ASPH standards. My 35mm Summilux ASPH is great and I really have no reason to purchase a 50mm ASPH, so it's a new Noctilux or nothing. -Dick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k_g_wolf ✝ Posted July 15, 2008 Share #57 Posted July 15, 2008 >> Bud One of the main reasons why the NOCTILUX is so special is: it is NOT an asph.- lens. If they make the new one it too much of an >>aspherical<< people might loose interest in it. So do not demand too strong ! Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted July 15, 2008 Share #58 Posted July 15, 2008 The Noctilux was made at ELCAN, which produced military spec Leica lenses if I'm not mistaken - that may be more the reason why the Noctilux was made in Canada. ELCAN makes optics for all sorts of clients, including Panavision (Primo lenses) and spy satellites. Leica may have had to discontinue the Noctilux, because the glass used in it's manufacture contained lead. The EU recently passed certain laws that limited the amount of lead in consumer goods (of domestic and imported manufacture). This is what killed the Hasselblad Xpan (lead solder etc). Revamping the production line would have been too great an investment. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NB23 Posted July 15, 2008 Share #59 Posted July 15, 2008 I can't agree with this, at all! A f1.0 lens that is usable along its whole f stop range is already a huge tour de force. I believe Leica is after optical perfectness and if they can create a perfect noctilux (no falloff, no vignetting, 0.00% distortion, high contrast...), they will. There is no point for such a company to go after hazy images. And the more it is perfect ("clinical"), the better for a company like Leica that earned its name by creating perfect lenses. Comparing a Noctilux to a lensbaby is not exactly good. >> Bud One of the main reasons why the NOCTILUX is so special is: it is NOT an asph.- lens. If they make the new one it too much of an >>aspherical<< people might loose interest in it. So do not demand too strong ! Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastdap@mac.com Posted July 15, 2008 Share #60 Posted July 15, 2008 Hmmm... and how do you explain the fact that this very special Noctilux glass has also been used in the Extender-R 2x, which was made in Germany. Best regards Alex I can't explain that? But, I was told about the use restriction on the Noctilux glass by Hans-Peter Cohn, then Chariman of Leica, in a discussion in his office in Solms. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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