bakerp Posted September 18, 2006 Share #1 Posted September 18, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Disappointed to see no socket to connect synch. cord for external flash. If we are shooting very wide (e.g. Tri-Elmar) for interiors as I do and need an auxiiiary viewfinder in the hot-shoe, how are we meant to trigger off-camera flash- or indeed any flash at all. I know that M's are reckoned to be all about available light but this looks a very short-sighted and surprising omission which would rule it out for me. Peter Baker Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Hi bakerp, Take a look here External Flash and M8. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 18, 2006 Share #2 Posted September 18, 2006 Peter you do bring up a good point on the PC socket that it not being there is a real issue . i agree when using the Tri- Elmar the aux. viewfinder does take it's place in the hot shoe. There are work arounds for this and being on a tripod take your test image get everything visually in order take a shot than remove the viewfinder and replace with flash. nice thing about digital is it is the testing king, you waste no money. Also with the Digital capture software you could easily shoot tethered also and see excactly whats gong on. yes this is somewhat a hassle and certainly tripod bound to work like this. The other trick is if you are shooting a 2 second exposure or so , you can simply hit the flash button in that time frame and handhold it or manually pop the power packs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakerp Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share #3 Posted September 18, 2006 Guy- you are of course right- but should such complicated "work-arounds" be necessary with an expensive bit of kit like this! Regards Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 18, 2006 Share #4 Posted September 18, 2006 Again i agree and that was my first concern when the Fake (lol) photos were up , I did not see a PC outlet and given the heavy use of the hot shoe for the aux. viewfinders makes the case for a PC even more in demand. Yes this one can certainly be looked at as a deal breaker IMHO. This is two design meetings i wish i sat in on. This and the EV, ISO controls. Honestly my DMR is less than perfect also but image is what counts but functions like these should not have been left out. The bad part is there is no attachment deal that we can use to cheat it either except take the viewfinder off. This is a strike against it i agree. the EV , ISO can still be fixed in firmware but this cannot, thios is hardware left off Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 18, 2006 Share #5 Posted September 18, 2006 Likewise Guy, that is one of the reasons why I thought the photos were fake. It seems very odd to omit a PC socket on a 'professional' camera. OK the M isn't a studio camera, and typically M users don't use flash if it can be helped, but given the added point about the use of auxiliary finders I would have thought the PC socket is pretty much essential, otherwise why bother including it on the M film bodies? After all, they've included a cable release socket and a self timer on the M8 (the Japanese style graphics were another reason for me to doubt the photos but I guess they borrowed them from Panasonic). When it transpired that the photos were the real deal I thought that the PC socket would be lurking behind that back door cover along with the USB point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 18, 2006 Share #6 Posted September 18, 2006 James i followed the same train of thought on that, why this was not shown made believe it was fake because if you remember we both said it all along . this is a mistake on there part , no question. i love leica and i love the DMR but i will be the first to say there wrong also. This is one reason to get collective thoughts from COMMERCIAL photographers that live and breed this stuff everyday. Journalist are great but not the whole story Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 18, 2006 Share #7 Posted September 18, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) James i followed the same train of thought on that, why this was not shown made believe it was fake because if you remember we both said it all along . this is a mistake on there part , no question. i love leica and i love the DMR but i will be the first to say there wrong also. This is one reason to get collective thoughts from COMMERCIAL photographers that live and breed this stuff everyday. Journalist are great but not the whole story Hi Guy, You mean "live and breath" I think but the other is interesting to imagine. <G> The Canon pro cameras don't have a PC socket either, as you know. My guess is that Leica was afraid that some photographers (who don't know much about trigger voltage and who don't read manuals) would proceed to hook up a flash with a high trigger voltage to the M8 and thus fry the camera. You know that my review gave a lot of attention to the digital controls issue but I can really see where Leica might be coming from with the PC socket. What I'd like to see is a flash connecting cord with a very shallow connector that slides into the hot shoe and then provides a dummy shoe on top for an accessory finder. If one doesn't need the finder, however, it's easy enough to just slide a Wein safe-synch in there and work from that. With the R-D1, I find it cumbersome to use both the Wein and an accessory finder for wide lenses. Since the M8 already provides a 32 mm FOV in the finder, that's much less of an issue for me with the Leica. In fact, if there was room in the M8 body, it would have been a good idea for Leica to build electronics in (like those used in the Wein) for a PC socket with a circuit that was buffered for higher trigger voltage. This is an idea to go on the list for the next camera, perhaps. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 18, 2006 Share #8 Posted September 18, 2006 There is a little adapter we can use from Nikon I think is the AS -14 that has a PC outlet and a shoe on top for the viewfinder but it would bring the viewfinder up a little . Breath is right , but breed is pretty good too. LOL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grober Posted September 18, 2006 Share #9 Posted September 18, 2006 Sean, Will I be able to use ancient, "dumb" flashed like the venerable Vivitar 283/285 and Sunpak 383 in the M8's hot shoe without damaging the circutry in the camera? Better yet, will Leica ever offer a flash unit with an articulated head? (Yes, I know about Metz.) Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted September 18, 2006 Share #10 Posted September 18, 2006 Have to say I find the SF-24D unbearably crude, so a flash with an articulated head would be much better. I had hope Metz would be shouting about some new products for the M9 by now, especially with the support for the the flash reflector to match the lens mounted using the lens code. I'll check them out at Photokina next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 18, 2006 Share #11 Posted September 18, 2006 There is a little adapter we can use from Nikon I think is the AS -14 that has a PC outlet and a shoe on top for the viewfinder but it would bring the viewfinder up a little . Breath is right , but breed is pretty good too. LOL Hi Guy, I'll have to look and see how tall that is. The ticket would be something that is ultra-low profile and only adds, say, 1/4". Again, it's not a big deal for me because I don't really need to go much wider than a 32 mm EFOV with flash so I don't expect to need the accessory finder and off-shoe cord at the same time (at least not very often). As to "breed", what do you do?...leave the cameras in a quiet room, pour some wine...if it works I can think of some interesting hybrids. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wparsonsgisnet Posted September 18, 2006 Share #12 Posted September 18, 2006 JW, I have a pair of Vivitar 283's and purchased Wein HSHS adapters to make sure they didn't fry anything. The street prices of these adapters is about $55 -- cheap compared to a fried D2 or (whoops) M8. I always carry these with my Vivitar units. I also have a Metz 54. I wish I could get wireless remotes for the thing. Regards, Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sean_reid Posted September 18, 2006 Share #13 Posted September 18, 2006 Sean, Will I be able to use ancient, "dumb" flashed like the venerable Vivitar 283/285 and Sunpak 383 in the M8's hot shoe without damaging the circutry in the camera? Better yet, will Leica ever offer a flash unit with an articulated head? (Yes, I know about Metz.) Thanks! Hi, As with virtually every other digital camera, one would want to use a Wein safe-synch to reduce the trigger voltage in the flash down to a level that the camera can accept. I use the Wein and an old 283 (with the marvelous remote sensor) on all kinds of digital bodies. So, no, I wouldn't use an older flash (high trigger volt.) directly on the M8....or the 5D or the D200, etc. Cheers, Sean Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guy_mancuso Posted September 18, 2006 Share #14 Posted September 18, 2006 Here are some options http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=109453&is=REG&addedTroughType=search http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?ci=1&sb=ps&pn=1&sq=desc&InitialSearch=yes&O=productlist.jsp&A=search&Q=*&bhs=t&shs=pc+hot+shoe&image.x=0&image.y=0 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlm Posted September 18, 2006 Share #15 Posted September 18, 2006 there is still the issue of the pre-flash, right? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 18, 2006 Share #16 Posted September 18, 2006 The Canon pro cameras don't have a PC socket either, as you know. My guess is that Leica was afraid that some photographers (who don't know much about trigger voltage and who don't read manuals) would proceed to hook up a flash with a high trigger voltage to the M8 and thus fry the camera. Sean, I do think this is a fundamental error in the M8 design. The Canon's won't ever be used with shoe mounted finders so totally a non issue there, agreed. If someone who has the money to spend on an M8 system, and presumably the level of interest to use such a camera, I think they should also be trusted to be able to read an instruction manual. Do Leica advise us not to put the cameras in with the wash? Shoe mounted adapters are a possible solution, but you will of course increase the risk of parralax errors and framing becomes much more like guesswork (or checking the LCD after every shot). Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted September 18, 2006 Share #17 Posted September 18, 2006 Hi Guy, .... The Canon pro cameras don't have a PC socket either, as you know..... Cheers, Sean Sure they do. I use mine on the 1Ds2 all the time. I think it is very unfortunate not to have one incorporated in the M8. Since you have used the camera, how bad is this shutter lag Erwin mentions? If that issue really exists, and the firmware cannot, with the 75 Summicron, produce an image any better than a 4 to 1 Canon zoom, much of the appeal of this long awaited camera is going to be lost. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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