The Future for Film

[Photoskeptic]

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I believe film will become a niche market. I certainly hope it doesn't disappear. If so, I will consign my trusty M4 to a place where someone can muse over its use a hundred years from now. However, I am concerned about highly regarded photo magazines now featuring inkjet prints as "Fine Art". And yes, someday I might get lucky and even get my inkjet prints featured - but the concern is that silver gelatin prints may soon be relegated to history and I think that's sad. In my saying that film may become a niche market perhaps the fine art print as practised in the past may also become a niche market and that could be construed as a good thing as this could weed out the less talented print-makers and we'll be left with only those who do outstanding work.

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[Guest malland]

I believe film will become a niche market. I certainly hope it doesn't disappear...However, I am concerned about highly regarded photo magazines now featuring inkjet prints as "Fine Art"......but the concern is that silver gelatin prints may soon be relegated to history and I think that's sad.

Let's talk about art and not worry about "Fine Art": art is about the nature of the image not about whether it wes made digital or from film, or from daguerrotype.

In my saying that film may become a niche market perhaps the fine art print as practised in the past may also become a niche market and that could be construed as a good thing as this could weed out the less talented print-makers and we'll be left with only those who do outstanding work.

Does this mean that the people making prints from film are less talented?

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

[Guest malland]

The art of capturing the image.

The art of blending with the right developer.

The art of wet processing and agitation.

The art of adding and subtracting developing time.

 

The result???

No digital or photoshop could match or get close to... ever.

You really should get around some more. But seriously, this simply ain't true: it's not the hard darkroom work, and having fingers yellow from fixer, that makes art; it's the vision of the artist.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

[haris]

Haris you are worse than a squirrel hoarding nuts for winter!!!!, I am sure there is no deep freeze on the way, film has not died

 

That is one way to look at it..

 

Other way is, because here is hard to buy b/w film, chemistry, paper I must order it from a broad. Buying larger quantities makes bank and some other expencies more reasonable. And it is easier (atleast for me) to buy supply for year or two at once rather than little by little every few months...

 

Regards

[haris]

But seriously, this simply ain't true: it's not the hard darkroom work, and having fingers yellow from fixer, that makes art; it's the vision of the artist.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

 

Hmm... Part of fun IS working in darkroom. Or as Zen budists would say (to parafraze): It is not photo you get what matters, is it journey (or in this case, working method you used) you made to get it

[Rolo]

You really should get around some more. But seriously, this simply ain't true: it's not the hard darkroom work, and having fingers yellow from fixer, that makes art; it's the vision of the artist.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

http://www.flickr.com/photos/10268776@N00/

 

Ansel Adams had a different opinon from you, but look where it got him.

 

"The negative is the score, the print is the performance". One has to be able to deliver the vision, or the vision is purely a mental process.

 

Craft is essential to fine art and it's the foundation on which the vision can be realised. A sculptor who can't use a chisel will not sell his work. A painter who can't mix colours ..... etc.

 

It's in the dark/light room where the art is made.

[wilfredo]

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Can we say that the Computer Screen has become the new darkroom where orchestrating the performance now takes place????

 

Cheers,

Wilfredo+

Benitez-Rivera Photography

[humanized_form]

postprocessing, whether done with a computer or in a darkroom, definitely requires certain skills. that is one approach.

 

one can also have a complete vision of what an image should look like when one sees it. all the decisions and choices can be made inside the camera when you take the picture. how? the color slide!

 

how you see is the art.

[arthury]

Just go by your nearest drugstore every couple of months and you'll see a downward trend of the film industry. 6months ago, I saw Kodak Ultra, Kodak BW400 & Kodachrome64 on the shelves. This month, I do not see any more Ultras or BW400 in any drugstore in my town, let alone Kodachrome.

[ron110n]

You really should get around some more. But seriously, this simply ain't true: it's not the hard darkroom work, and having fingers yellow from fixer, that makes art; it's the vision of the artist.

 

—Mitch/Bangkok

Flickr: Photos from Mitch Alland

 

Fixer is yellow??? Must be the Stop bath. =)

 

Here's a 35mm captured at available light @ 1/15th sec. and also at flicker to be fair.

 

Leica User Forum

 

Leica M7, Summilux 50mm f/1.4 Asph, Kodak Tri-x 400, Fomadon R09 1:40 @ 20 deg C / 10 min. instead of the 12 min as it say's in the literature.

 

I don't think it's hard work, It's fun!!! And it's not as difficult as thought.

 

If you're local and you like Jazz, Julie Day makes a good performance. =)

Of course let's be polite... "no flash".

 

Cheers!

-Ron

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

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[ron110n]

Just go by your nearest drugstore every couple of months and you'll see a downward trend of the film industry. 6months ago, I saw Kodak Ultra, Kodak BW400 & Kodachrome64 on the shelves. This month, I do not see any more Ultras or BW400 in any drugstore in my town, let alone Kodachrome.

 

You can also get Kodak Tmax 400 at my local CVS Pharmacy.

Thanks for the tip!

 

Cheers!

-Ron

[PATB]

Is it possible to get into film without having to actually do your own developing? I would like to try my hand with BW film, but there doesn't seem to be any development labs left in my area.

[Guest stnami]

Developing film without a darkroom is quite easy as someone will soon write several ways of going about it

[vic vic]

hi all,

 

i dont think the issue of "making art" is the issue here.. art can be made with different mediums and equaly good if the artist is capable to do so.

craft... well - here too, wether it is film or digital - craft is needed anyway.

 

patb...

even if u had a lab that develops b/w, still - do it yourself. it is te best way.

 

what u need:

 

-black, light tight bag (special bag that can be beought in photo suppleis hsops). with this bag u will be able to load your film in developing tank, without risk of any foging.

-developing tank... jobo can be found everywhere i think, and it is one of the bests and simpliest to work with. as a suggestion, buy the double size, not because of ability to develop two films at the same time, but becuase it is good when u have some space in tank for agitation. if u want to develop two films at the same time, buy the tank that can make 4 films, or just add special extender tube to the double size tank.

also, nice to have a spare reel.

-two greduates (or what ever it is called) to measure the quntity of liquid chemicals. one small of up to 100ml for small quntities of developer, and the other at about 350 to 1000 ml for mixing etc.

-a good termometer to measure the temperature of your liquids. also, buy it in photo supplie shops.

-developer chemicals... liquid developrs are extrimly eassy, but some poweder developers are very good (like id-11 or x-tol) for photo quality. do not play with replanishers... use them as one shot. u mix, develop, and throw it.

-stop bath, i litle bottle of 500ml is enough for long time- u will need between 25-50ml for each fresh stop bath. each bath can be re-use for a long time before it is exohsted.

-fixer, like ilford hypam, or any other rapid equvalent. a bottle of one litter will be enough, u will need for mixing about 100-200ml each time. each time it can be re-used for about a week before it is exohsted. i assume that u dont do alot of film development each week, so probably your fixer will be exohsted by the air within a week after u made the fresh solution rather than by the work.

- have storage bottles of 500-1000ml for storing the mixed chemicals that can be reused - two of them. one for stop bath and the other for fixer.

-washing - the most recomended method in case u dont have special washing stuff is acording ilford recomendations. download their data-sheet from their website.

-agapon or ilfo-tol for rinsing after washing. again, a little bottle will be enough for long time. follow ilford recomendations.

-squzing the water from negative after the rinse... do it either with keiser special stuff, or put your film between your two fingers are remove the water from film. do not use any

other squizer. from this stage, make sure u are in clean envirnment, without too much dust in the air etc.

-hanging stuff to hand your negative. amke sure u dont walk around it after u have hanged in order to avoid dust.

-skisors and film sleeves when the negative is dry. adox or clear-file are very good.

 

if u dont have darkroom, no problems... all the above stuff - u can put it in one bag of about the size of bags for laptop computer + one book. u can take it anywhere with u when u dont have darkroom.

also, use clean filtered water for consistent results.

for slide films (and also negative colour) it is a problem without relevant conditions especially temperature control. when im not in my place i can eassily give it to trusted pro-lab. the developing methods are usualy very standard anyway, and the little play can be done by pro-lab too (like push etc). just make sure that they use a real e6 (real six step like kodak not the short 3 step method). on light table, top post-production scanners and top darkroom enlarging equipment, the differances are evident imidiatly. on normal film scanners or simple flatbed scanners the differances are not so relevant between the real e6 and the three step method.

[ron110n]

Is it possible to get into film without having to actually do your own developing? I would like to try my hand with BW film, but there doesn't seem to be any development labs left in my area.

 

Hi Patrick,

 

Here is one way.

There are C41 B&W films like Kodak CN400 or Ilford XP2.

C41 is the same chemical they use for your colored film.

Therefore, your local Pharmacy can do the B&W processing.

The result is B&W in RGB, just like the B&W contrast of your digital camera,

but with more depth and grain texture.

 

Here is the other way.

You want your B&W traditional and in Gray Scale.

If you're local in the US.

A&I Photo lab do Xtol processing and printing and contact sheet.

You can send it through mail.

Just click the link below.

 

Film Processing, Photographic Lab, Printing - A&I Photographic Lab

 

Here's the better way, and you will be proud of yourself with the result.

Do your own processing.

 

Start a topic on how to process B&W films.

You'll get tons of response and there is no such thing as stupid questions here in this forum.

It's easy.

 

-Ron

[PATB]

Thanks for the info guys. I think I will try the C41 route first using my old film SLR. If I enjoy the process, I will learn how to develop B&W myself and get an old Leica.

[mmazariegos]

Well for me I am not a pro so I have no hurry to get things done and photo is a hobby so I really like the way film makes you slow down and use your head to shoot. With digital imaging its like all the shots in the world are there for free and you let your guard down to shoot. So for me it will be film till its all over but as I am 45 I think it will be around until long after I am gone.... just a thought.

[thomasw_]

Well for me I am not a pro so I have no hurry to get things done and photo is a hobby so I really like the way film makes you slow down and use your head to shoot. With digital imaging its like all the shots in the world are there for free and you let your guard down to shoot. So for me it will be film till its all over but as I am 45 I think it will be around until long after I am gone.... just a thought.

 

Not 'just' a thought, a considered thought. I hope you are right, too, as I am in your age group:) Welcome to the forum!

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[neila]

I know we often refer to CD's and Vinyl - however another interesting analogy would be what's happened in the recording studio.

 

Up until fairly recently most multi-track recordings were made on 2 inch tape on 24 track decks. Beautifully made machines from Revox, Studer and the like. These machines were of Leica quality.

 

Today studios use PC or Mac based recording - digital sytems from Logic, Cubase etc. Recording studios very rarely use tape. Tape had a limited life - the digital domain is not limited in the same way.

 

Sadly, I think film will go the same way. I bought an MP a few years ago - wonderful camera, however I now never use it, digital allows me to throw more shots away leaving (hopefully) a better quality of 'keepers'. Whilst I am only an amateur, I'd bet that digital allows more creativity in production - which is true in the recording studio too.

 

 

Maybe to stretch the analogy even further..... decent quality microphones and mixing desks (analogue) are, perhaps, the lenses?!

[humanized_form]

I know we often refer to CD's and Vinyl - however another interesting analogy would be what's happened in the recording studio.

 

Up until fairly recently most multi-track recordings were made on 2 inch tape on 24 track decks. Beautifully made machines from Revox, Studer and the like. These machines were of Leica quality.

 

Today studios use PC or Mac based recording - digital sytems from Logic, Cubase etc. Recording studios very rarely use tape. Tape had a limited life - the digital domain is not limited in the same way.

 

Sadly, I think film will go the same way. I bought an MP a few years ago - wonderful camera, however I now never use it, digital allows me to throw more shots away leaving (hopefully) a better quality of 'keepers'. Whilst I am only an amateur, I'd bet that digital allows more creativity in production - which is true in the recording studio too.

 

Maybe to stretch the analogy even further..... decent quality microphones and mixing desks (analogue) are, perhaps, the lenses?!

 

 

i know what you mean. i work with broadcast audio and have seen the complete migration from analog to digital media.

 

i think some of the best sounding compact discs/digital media i have heard were recordings which were originally tracked to analog tape and then transferred to digital (pro tools etc) for editing, mixing and mastering. using this hybrid approach you can take advantage of the gentle roll off of tape (like you can also do when working with film) and then transfer to digital for all the wonderful editing/mixing options (like you can also do when working with scanned film).

 

you also have the original analog master available (like having a negative/slide available) to take advantage of future improvements in digital technology. as technology improves you can retrieve more and more information from the analog master (be it tape, negative or slide etc) and then transfer it to the latest digital standard.

 

right now it's a very exciting time in history to have all of these choices available to us.