john_r_smith Posted September 18, 2006 Share #1 Posted September 18, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) Just to invite views from the members here (and perhaps to turn our attention to matters non-digital for just a moment), how do we see the future of film? Is it - * Doomed, and will rapidly disappear in all its forms * Destined to become a small niche market for large format and 120 roll cameras only, perhaps only in B/W * Likely to make a modest recovery in the medium term as people snap up bargain high-quality film cameras and want to use them again What do you think? John Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted September 18, 2006 Posted September 18, 2006 Hi john_r_smith, Take a look here The Future for Film. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted September 18, 2006 Share #2 Posted September 18, 2006 None of the above? * Destined to become a very small niche market for 35mm too. Would get my vote. You will have to buy film over the internet, as high street retailers will not be able to make any money from the shelf space. Chemicals will become very difficult to buy off the shelf too. The choice of films will decrease as demand reduces. You will know when the end really is near (as far as any mass market is concerned) when you can no longer get C41 processed in Sainsbury's or Boots. There will always be a place for film, even if it becomes a real effort to buy it and have it processed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted September 18, 2006 Share #3 Posted September 18, 2006 This is a quite paralell development to that seen with recods. The CD was lauched in 81 (I beleive), it took a wile to take off, but it did. i bought my last new vinyl record in the mid 80s and haven't regretted that. Vinyl is still being used, especially by DJs and other people in that niche. Film will continue to be availble. You may not get it at the corner shop anymore in a few years, but webshops will enure you can get your fix if you need it. Ilford is committed as is Efke and Adox. Kodak might stop as may Fuji. I'll miss Neopan, but not the Kodak films - not even Tri-X. If Xtol goes away I'll go back to ID-11. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaggs Posted September 18, 2006 Share #4 Posted September 18, 2006 cbretteville, did you realise that the only reason CD's took over.. is that they stopped putting them on the shelves.. ? Vinyl was outselling CD's 6 to 1 when the majors took them off the shelves. Daniel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 18, 2006 Share #5 Posted September 18, 2006 So the convenience, portability, longevity and, to most people's ears, better sound quality had nothing to do with it then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
john_r_smith Posted September 18, 2006 Author Share #6 Posted September 18, 2006 Well, Ilford may be committed, but can they survive? Just as much to the point, can film processing labs survive? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
snaggs Posted September 18, 2006 Share #7 Posted September 18, 2006 Advertisement (gone after registration) People will come back to it as a niche artistic format once they get bored with digital... now that theres a Digital M available.. dont you feel in less of a hurry to switch since you know the M system has a definite future? Daniel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vic vic Posted September 18, 2006 Share #8 Posted September 18, 2006 i will not start examining the market issues here extenssivly... for me.... no way i will give up on b/w photograpy... diesnt matter what format. about market in short... ya i think we will get into some small niche (or already there actually). and b/w photography will be somewhat devided from general terms of photography. i think it is ok... and ya... i can hear it from even from non-photog people.... here is a little example... a few days ago a few celebs at ones were really exited that i will do it with real b/w film and very exited with the camera (the mp in that case). the particualr peopel do have knowledge in art but they are not photography "enthusiasts" at all as far as i know, but still - they know the differance, and they realize that part of what makes my photos different is that they are not just b/w converted on computer but a real silver gelatin prints - they see it even if they dont get deep into details - and it has big emotional impact on them. so, ya - there is even higher respect for b/w now, as i said, mainly because it gets a little apart from the "general" photography. i dont mention here people who know something more about photography - those are really exited actually. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stnami Posted September 18, 2006 Share #9 Posted September 18, 2006 vic vic and vic film use it digital B&W is ................. the stuff of stuff there still is a market for a horse and cart! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted September 18, 2006 Share #10 Posted September 18, 2006 Well, now that the M8 is here we will no doubt see a glut of used M's on the market, prices will drop considerably, or rather it will be a case of 'who on earth is going to give you anything for it'. I am however prepared to by an M7 for £50 if anyone wants to get in quick before they are totally worthless....? Then we have the real world, where film cameras continue to be used by significant number of photographers as well as 'happy snappers' who have yet to upgrade to digital - well they're more likely to upgrade their phones to a model with a 2 or 3mp camera. The future of film? I really don't doubt that it will be available for as long as one can imagine. OK, Kodak and Fuji may slim their ranges further as demand reduces, you will have to buy it from a specialist retailer or over the net, and the price of a roll will most likely increase a bit. When Snappy Snaps, or Boots or the like no longer offer film processing, and the only options are pro labs, 'cottage industry' mail order processors or diy, that will be the point when film is truly a niche product. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted September 18, 2006 Share #11 Posted September 18, 2006 Well, Ilford may be committed, but can they survive? Just as much to the point, can film processing labs survive? That is partly up to us, keep the niche market going. I'm more concerned with Ilford than the labs as I soup my own and on film shoot B&W almost exclusively. Regardless I plan to enjoy the ride while it lasts, do what I can to keep it going and adapt as I must. I'll enjoy photography regardless of the medium used to capture the images. - Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertwang Posted September 18, 2006 Share #12 Posted September 18, 2006 Like love, it's here to stay... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flatfour Posted September 18, 2006 Share #13 Posted September 18, 2006 My Digilux 2 is great for colour but my M6 I still use with film and would never give it up providing I can get film and chemicals. I had a letter from Heiland Splitgrade this week and they have expanded their range of enlargers which will take the Splitgrade head. They seem to suggest that film might have bottomed out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LADP Posted September 18, 2006 Share #14 Posted September 18, 2006 So the convenience, portability, longevity and, to most people's ears, better sound quality had nothing to do with it then? Actually, almost any audiophile will tell you that vinyl on a good system sounds far superior to the compressed sound of CD's. Over the years, the difference has become less severe, but the consensus is that standard CD's basically suck compared to vinyl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LADP Posted September 18, 2006 Share #15 Posted September 18, 2006 As for the issue of film vs. digital, I can tell you that in the realm of motion picture cinematography (which is what I do for a living), digital mediums are making major inroads for origination, but 35mm motion picture film stock still reigns for the the majority of major motion picture and episodic TV series. Having said that, I have lensed two films in the last 3 years that were documentary style, and as recently as about 5 years ago, they would have been shot on 16mm stock instead of a digital HD format. The day will come when digital origination becomes the dominant media in motion pictures, but they have a way to go in image quality, and particularly ergonomic design in the camera systems. My guess is about 7 - 10 years before 35mm takes a back seat to digital formats. In still photography, I think the day has already arrived... at least on the amateur consumer level, no? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nikau Posted September 19, 2006 Share #16 Posted September 19, 2006 I have just been using my R6-2 and, as I always do when putting it away, marveled at what a lovely camera it is to work with ... as are my M4, M6 and M7 and my SL2 (which gets a workout now and then). I feel genuinely sad that I may not be able to use these cameras in the future, or that their use may be severely restricted, due to lack of film and/or processing. I use digital by way of R lenses on a Canon body but far prefer using the Leicas. Much of my "daytime" photography ends up in print publications and I do that by shooting negative film, getting it processed in 10 minutes by a nearby one-hour lab and scanning the negatives I want on my Nikon 5000ED. Only when time is of the essence do I use digital. However, using film this way takes little extra time than messing around with RAW digital images in Photoshop and I could go on this way for ages ... but one day I'm going to take my film in and find the lab has closed. Already it's the only one near me that's hung-in there. I guess that's when I put my R6-2 and earlier Ms into semi retirement and see about an M8. I don't want to sound like a Luddite, but wasn't it great in the "good old days" when you could significantly upgrade the ability of your camera just by buying a roll of whichever new film had come on the market! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
andybarton Posted September 19, 2006 Share #17 Posted September 19, 2006 Actually, almost any audiophile will tell you that vinyl on a good system sounds far superior to the compressed sound of CD's. Over the years, the difference has become less severe, but the consensus is that standard CD's basically suck compared to vinyl. That's why I qualified my original statement. Most people are not audiophiles, nor do they have access to audiophile equipment. For most people, CDs sound better than vinyl, if only for the lack of pops and clicks... (I am not an audiophile, but recall the first DDD CD I ever bought. I couldn't listen to it, as the sound was so bright and harsh, it gave me a headache) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ijporter Posted September 19, 2006 Share #18 Posted September 19, 2006 I've wondered about buying a digital camera as my main photographic instrument, but I keep thinking - why make my R6 and 5 R-lenses redundant when, for the price of a D-Lux 2 I can buy a Coolscan 5000ED scanner and have file sizes of up to 130Mb per image as well as the originals? I get to maintain my lens range of 21mm - 180mm (360mm with the X2) and can transfer 30 years of slides and negs onto disc. Yep, it'd be nice to have the latest and to see my pictures immediately, but waiting a little while for the results hadn't bothered me before, and I don't need to worry about purple fringing, memory cards or batteries & chargers when travelling. So, as much as I like the look of the new Leica Digitals, I think I'll use my head and keep to film with the option of post-processing digital transfer and manipulation. That way I think I will enjoy the best of both worlds! Mind you - the little Ricoh GR with the 21mm adaptor (wash my mouth out!) looks good! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbretteville Posted September 19, 2006 Share #19 Posted September 19, 2006 Ian, Welcom to the forum! Enjoy the ride and happy shooting. This is what it is all about, not what rocks your boat. - Carl Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Metroman Posted September 19, 2006 Share #20 Posted September 19, 2006 Interesting thread and something else to take into account is how much teaching is still based on film? At the beginning of this year when I retired I decided that I wanted to get back to basics and go back to film. I also decided I would start from square one and make myself learn more about manual shooting. I dusted of my old Olympus XA and then was lucky enough to pick up a CL cheap and it really made me think about how to shoot again. Now with my new MP I am really enjoying photography again and determined to improve my manual skills. So far this year I have applied and been accepted for eight courses in photography which were mainly film based and all eight courses have been cancelled due to insufficient applicants/interest. The digital courses are over subscribed and they cannot put enough courses into the academic year! OK these are weekend and evening classes but what are the Uni's teaching the fulltime students who are taking the degree courses and what is their emphasis on film v digital? If the next generation of shooters are mainly digital based then things do not bode well. I spoke to one student and asked how much emphasis was given to film and whilst they were taught the skills they all considered it interesting but history! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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