Guest Ron (Netherlands) Posted June 12, 2008 Share #1 Â Posted June 12, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Yesterday I got the below (right side) IIIF ST in the mail. When comparing it with the IIIF (at left side) for the first time I realized that the ST has no screws for the attachment of top plate. When I started looking around at photos in my books and on the internet I saw only IIIF's with screws. Can someone raise a tip of this "mistery"? btw the ST is from 1953 and the other one from 1952. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 12, 2008 Posted June 12, 2008 Hi Guest Ron (Netherlands), Take a look here A IIIF without screws?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
earleygallery Posted June 12, 2008 Share #2 Â Posted June 12, 2008 Just one of many Leica production mods over the years. I have two lllf's (neither has ST) one with one without the screws. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragc Posted June 12, 2008 Share #3 Â Posted June 12, 2008 No screws on my IIf either. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
@bumac Posted June 12, 2008 Share #4 Â Posted June 12, 2008 No screws on my IIIf with ST. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 12, 2008 Share #5 Â Posted June 12, 2008 I seem to remember that is related to the 2 basic important variants of IIIf : - The Black Dial (up to # 611.000) has the screws - The Red Dial hasn't. Â The presence or not of the selftimer isn't fundamental : not all the Red Dials have it, and many Black Dial have it : probably, factory conversion, but even made before the sale of the camera... the transition frm BD to RD happened in a timeframe in which Leitz factory was running at full speed with no problems of "just in time" production... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crm.ecosse Posted June 13, 2008 Share #6  Posted June 13, 2008 Yesterday I got the below (right side) IIIF ST in the mail. When comparing it with the IIIF (at left side) for the first time I realized that the ST has no screws for the attachment of top plate. When I started looking around at photos in my books and on the internet I saw only IIIF's with screws. Can someone raise a tip of this "mistery"? btw the ST is from 1953 and the other one from 1952.  Have a look at the 20 or so IIIF models illustrated (both black and red dial models) on the Westlicht Wein 'Vintage' web-site. All will be revealed in these superb illustrations.  See - Willkommen im LeicaShop - Startseite de  Regards, CRM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 13, 2008 Share #7 Â Posted June 13, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Always an interesting site to visit.. and a confirmation of my previous post... , all the depicted IIIf BD have the screws, and not the RD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragc Posted June 13, 2008 Share #8 Â Posted June 13, 2008 Always an interesting site to visit.. and a confirmation of my previous post... , all the depicted IIIf BD have the screws, and not the RD. Â ...and my IIf is a Red Dial... so it appears it was carried out on the IIs the same way. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 13, 2008 Share #9 Â Posted June 13, 2008 Both my lllf's are red dials, one has screws the other doesn't. It was probably changed around the time the lllf RD was introduced so maybe only earlier RD's have them. Â The later cameras without the screws show better bokeh. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 14, 2008 Share #10  Posted June 14, 2008 Both my lllf's are red dials, one has screws the other doesn't. It was probably changed around the time the lllf RD was introduced so maybe only earlier RD's have them. The later cameras without the screws show better bokeh.  Hum... let me guess... has your item with screws a number between 615.001 and 650.000 ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted June 14, 2008 Share #11 Â Posted June 14, 2008 I check in the Lager # 1 : cameras and I do not find any comments about, I even look in the Nat Cam Manual #327 The Leica IIIf 78 page and they show pictures from the ones with screws. My personnal contribute is : IIIf BD 583xxx screws " RD 615xxx screws " RD 659xxx no screw " RD 679xxx " ST " RD 729xxx " ST IIf RD 763xxx " If RD 789xxx " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragc Posted June 14, 2008 Share #12 Â Posted June 14, 2008 IIF SN 799912 here: no screws, good bokeh Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted June 15, 2008 Share #13 Â Posted June 15, 2008 Hum... let me guess... has your item with screws a number between 615.001 and 650.000 ? Â Correct Luigi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchs Posted June 16, 2008 Share #14  Posted June 16, 2008 IIIF RD, no ST, SN# 662466, no screws here  Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted June 18, 2008 Share #15 Â Posted June 18, 2008 I asked to some experts when and at what s/n the screws disapeared, I am waiting for an answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 18, 2008 Share #16 Â Posted June 18, 2008 I'd bet ONE beer it was from 650.000 on... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted June 20, 2008 Share #17 Â Posted June 20, 2008 The last information is from Dr Bawendi, from Germany who wrote an article in Vidom, the magazine edited by the German Leica Historical Society, about the IIIf. He says that the screws was removed starting at s/n 615001 first of the batch of 35000 IIIf second version with RD, years 1952/53. Â OK next then, I told him that I own one with screws s/n 6155xx, I heard a head scratching and the usual : "exception which confirm the rule". Â Luigi keep the beer in a cold place. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 20, 2008 Share #18 Â Posted June 20, 2008 The last information is from Dr Bawendi, from Germany who wrote an article in Vidom, the magazine edited by the German Leica Historical Society, about the IIIf.He says that the screws was removed starting at s/n 615001 first of the batch of 35000 IIIf second version with RD, years 1952/53. Â OK next then, I told him that I own one with screws s/n 6155xx, I heard a head scratching and the usual : "exception which confirm the rule". Â Luigi keep the beer in a cold place. Â Hum... 618.xxx... here in Brescia (not mine) and WITH screws... another "exception which confirm the rule"... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 20, 2008 Share #19 Â Posted June 20, 2008 ... and, I forgot, there is also James' item... we put together 3 "exceptions" very quickly... Dr. Bawendi... maybe it's you to prepare a round of beer... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted June 20, 2008 Share #20  Posted June 20, 2008 IIIF RD, no ST, SN# 662466, no screws here  Apart the screw of Summicron 50 mount ! .... mmmh, delicious and rare... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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