My First Leica

[teacherraney]

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After a hiatus of a few years I returned to photography about two years ago when I was gifted with a used digital camera. It was fun, and then it broke, and now it's not worth fixing. Screen savers are nice, and I have stacks of unviewed digital images, but what I realized was that I was pining away for black & white film. As a print photographer, I'm still very much what my students label as old school: I whip up my chemical from scratch, still have a functioning darkroom, and simply love the slow, smelly process of film. Over the years I've gone through the formats, from small to large, priding myself on my photographs of urban squalor. But recently I've moved back down to small format and I am truly enjoying photographing people for the first time.

 

I am very much a lover of well-made, used photographic equipment--the only new things I own are filters and film--and nothing speaks better of old fashioned quality than does the Leica badge. I want an M Leica. For my money as a user, not a collector, the M4-P appears to be just the camera for me. I'd rather not 'upgrade' to an M6 because I'm pretty handy with a light meter, and would just as soon not spend the extra money on an in-camera system that's liable to be on the fritz. As far as glass goes I'm gritting my teeth and going for the 35mm f/2 Summicron to start with.

 

Now, how and where to buy these things? Can those like-new M4-Ps on Ebay be trusted to still be in working order after being unused for decades? I certainly want a clean camera; and clean lens, for that matter. So, what's the answer for me? Ebay? B&H? KEH Camera? Or would the rule of thumb here be to never buy a Leica you haven't put your hands on?

 

I need wise heads to advise me, please.

[earleygallery]

This thread might be better placed in the film section.

 

You can find bargains on e bay, I have, but you can also be disappointed with items not up to scratch or not as good condition as they have been described (bearing in mind people have different ideas of what 'good' or 'excellent' condition mean!).

 

If you're not an experienced 'ebayer' then you also need to be wary of potential scams.

 

If buying from e bay I would suggest that you expect to send the camera right off for a CLA and factor that into the price. If you don't know exactly what you're looking for then I'd really advise you to buy from either somewhere like here (check out the buy/sell forums) or a dealer where you will have a g'tee (the camera may not have been CLA'd but it should certainly have been checked to make sure everything is in order and you also have the g'tee to fall back on if not).

 

Good luck.

[storybrown]

Everything James says is so - and the M model you've singled out seems an astute choice.

 

It stands to reason that this forum would be a fine place to look for equipment.

 

With due care & maybe a little experience, you can get great stuff on eBay and often some real bargains; good stuff is common, and disappointments (still less ripoffs) are present but rather uncommon. Feedback is the critical thing.

 

Also, you can't miss with KEH, IMO, but the first purchase - the payment via credit card & mailing procedures - will likely be a little tortuous, as some have found. After you've done it once, sailing will be smooth. At least, that's my experience. The equipment is always as good or better than you anticipate, and if not, they'll fix it.

 

Good luck, and don't forget to let us know all about it & post some pix!

[rubenkok]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Here is one Products Collectcamera

 

And here:

Schouten Select Cameras & Accessories!

 

OK it is in the Netherlands but the are here for sale

Hope this is some help.

All the best

Ruben

[DavidStone]

I certainly can't fault your choice of the M-series Leica and the 35mm Summicron, given that this would be my choice too. I feel that your best strategy would be to go to a specialist dealer, where you can see and handle the cameras. And don't be afraid of the older ones - I found an M2 (my personal favourite of all the M-series cameras) in very good condition some years ago, had it thoroughly checked over by a specialist, and it remains as solid and reliable as it was when new, and a joy to use - unlike most of the cameras made now.

 

Your old skills are becoming rarer now and should be used. So good luck, and good hunting!

 

David

[Michael-IIIf]

I'd agree. The M4 is probably a wise choice. I have an M6 but I hanker after an M4 (I'd love one in black) because it is a little smaller. Like you, I don't mind the absence of a meter. I use my IIIf without one and it doesn't bother me.

 

Tell us where in the world you live and we'll be able to recommend some retailers where you can go and fondle the gear.

[mike_h]

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My first Leica was an M4-2 and my son's first Leica an M4-P. Both were great cameras.

 

Try places where you can see the cameras, if not certainly try places that have a physical presence and a reputation to protect.

 

I understand from users here that Don Goldberg and Sherry Krauter in the States are both good - if small scale and both deal with second hand equipment. I think there is a very good chance that it will be as described.

 

If you don't mind dealing across the seas, the Camera Exchange in Melbourne Australia is always good and they have a raft of M4-2 and M4-P Leica's in stock at the moment.

 

The Camera Exchange

 

That is only a small selection of their stock - email them.

 

Have fun, they are great cameras.

 

Regards

 

Mike

[thomasw_]

I recommend KEH or Popflash over eBay if you are in North America.

[Photoskeptic]

While I bought all my original Leica equipment from Photo Village in NYC, I got a great M3 from KEH at a good price. Good luck to you in your search. Making the decision to go with Leica means you are headed in the right direction.

[rob_x2004]

Arent there any dealers in Texas? Be worth geting your hands on a camera to help make your mind. Will you save any bucks forking out for a good clean M4 over an M6? I havent looked into it but I would not have thought so. There seem to be plenty of M6 about. Theres nothing wrong with actually having a light meter, even if you chose not to use it. But I would be buying on the clarity of the viewfinder. The 35Summicron, its hard to see you going wrong there. Standing on the inside loooking out, I would have said M6/35Summicron. People who are not new users might have a different view.

[roguewave]

Teach, I have bought several cameras & many lenses on Ebay. Do your homework. Check listing on the forum as a starting pont. My feeling is that since the Forum is weighted more to the Euro, prices are high for US buyers. KEH is a good source to check on baseline US prices. It was good advise to take the time and go to a dealer and put the cameras in your hand so you know what your buying. I think the M2 is a better fit than the M4, given your introduction. Better & Brighter finder and only the M3 feels better in one's hand and eye. Take your time. The cron is great, can't go wrong there. The 35 summilux pre asph is my favorite, as it gives a particular "older" signature and than it's newer siblings. The cron is a great all around lens, super sharp and relatively fast. The 35 pre asph lux is a light magnet. The 1.4 lets you shoot anywhere and anytime. Good luck and Welcom Aboard. All the Best, Ben

[NZDavid]

There are some good priced M3s around now and the difference between them and M4-Ps/2s isn't as great as it was. The M3 is a superbly built camera I think you would enjoy, but the M2 or M4 variants would be better is you want the 35. Biggest thing is to buy a serviced camera from a dealer with a good reputation, and get a guarantee. In the States, Sherry Krauter has a good reputation, as does Rich at Photovillage in New York City. Tamarkin are also good to deal with, and here are several others. The pre-asph 35 is a good choice but the original rigid 50 Summicron is amazingly versatile. My meter choice is the Sekonic 308b -- incident and reflected readings, small, easy to use and accurate. Have fun!

[POKO]

Hi,

 

I still have my first Leica - an M4-P that looks like it has been to hell and back - but it still works perfectly! Can't bring myself to sell it, too much history. It is my only remaining film camera and I keep thinking I will bring it out to work with again. My darkroom has been packed away as my new studio does not have room for a darkroom, but one day...

 

The 35 Summicron is my favorite lens, they go together quite nicely.

 

I think you are on the right path.

 

Per

 

PS - if you find one of the last M4-P's, they have the viewfinder from the first M6's - the rangefinder window is flush with the body and not recessed. Just an aesthetic consideration.

[teacherraney]

I appreciate all of the advice, and I've picked up a few more names where I can locate a good camera. Yeah, I agree that finding one with at least a 30 day guarantee would be prudent, because an EBay bargain can just as easily blow up in your face.

 

As far as my camera choice, it will be an M4-P... period. I’ve done my research, and as shooter--not a collector--this is the strongest and most affordable choice for me. I’ve used an M3 for a few months, and I loved its feel and convenience, but simply hated the hassle of loading film onto that ridiculous little spool. I also didn’t like the rewind knob. No, I want the fast loading of the M4 design and the quick retrieval back into the cassette that the folding winding arm provides.

 

But I may reconsider the f/2, 35mm Summicron. Perhaps a 1.4 Summilux might be worth biting the bullet over. I’m a big fan of night photography, and this little darling just might be the bee’s knees for me. My upper spending limit for body and lens is about three grand. I just might be able to swing it.