Ambient light meter advise please

[kodaktrix]

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For those purposes I have an old Minolta Autometer II. It is analog, but does meter from EV-8 up to 25. It has been the most sensitive meter ever, more sensitive than any of its digital successors. You will find them from time to time on ebay.

 

Regards

 

Oliver

[wda]

I am taking delivery of an M6 on Wednesday and I would appreciate your recommendation on light meters. I have used Weston Masters in the past but someone suggested Sekonic . I only wish to use a meter for very low light conditions- film only not digital

 

Kenneth, your query has aroused mixed emotions! I have experience with M3 and M6. For the M3 I used Weston Master meters very successfully, even in low light conditions (with the baffle open). More recently I bought the Voigtlander clip on meter (Robert White has them) for the convenience of not carrying a separate meter. I liked it but, because it is not coupled to the exposure controls, I did sometimes forget to transfer the settings. This is less likely to happen with the Weston because the two are not physically linked. With both Ms, I have also used a Gossen Variosix quite extensively, very happily, more specifically for use with studio flash.

 

I believe you should try the Weston again, (easy if you still have one), before committing funds to another brand. After all, it is a classic of its type and is not expensive to buy.

 

David

[bill]

Bill take a deep breath. Take your tailors advice. And be frivolous and buy a nice Italian silk tie rather than hemp things that the english so favour.

 

Fair point, Rob. And of course you are right. I shall listen to you and Mr. Wetherill. No hemp for me though - and no hair shirts, either

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[kenneth]

Thank you all. David you mention the Weston which is maybe not a bad Idea. Have had and used them in the past I thought I might explore other brands as well. The Sekonic Studio Deluxe L-398 caught my eye and at £70 it is quite reasonable. With regard to meters fitted to cameras, that takes me back to my very first SLR, a Pentax S1a with an attached meter. But I think, following all your kind contributions it looks like it could either be a Sekonic L-398, a Gossens Lunasix 3 or a Weston Master V

[giordano]

Thank you David, I quite like the look of the Sekonic L-398A Studio Deluxe III and it is available in the UK for £70.00. I quite like the fact that it is self powered which means that I do not have a reliance on batteries. Sekonic seem quite a good make and I think initially I might look around for something second hand. I did see a Lunasix 3 for £50 which also seemed good value

 

The L-398A is a classic but no good in low light. It's less sensitive than a Weston and much less sensitive than the M6's built-in meter. Following are from spec sheets or manuals and all relate to ISO 100:

• L-398-A: EV 4 to EV 17 in incident mode, EV 9 to EV 17 in reflected mode. EV4 is 1/4 sec at f/2, EV 9 is 1/125 at f/2.
  
• Euromaster II: EV3 to EV 17 (incident or reflected).
  
• M6: Metering range depends on the aperture range of the lens; according to the manual it goes down to EV-1 with a f/1 lens, so EV1 with a f/2 lens.
  
• Digisix, Digiflash: EV0 to EV18
  
• Digipro, Starlite: EV-2.5 to EV18 (or EV2 to EV18 for the Starlite's 1 degree spot mode).

[bill]

The L-398A is a classic but no good in low light. It's less sensitive than a Weston and much less sensitive than the M6's built-in meter. Following are from spec sheets or manuals and all relate to ISO 100:

• L-398-A: EV 4 to EV 17 in incident mode, EV 9 to EV 17 in reflected mode. EV4 is 1/4 sec at f/2, EV 9 is 1/125 at f/2.
  
• Euromaster II: EV3 to EV 17 (incident or reflected).
  
• M6: Metering range depends on the aperture range of the lens; according to the manual it goes down to EV-1 with a f/1 lens, so EV1 with a f/2 lens.
  
• Digisix, Digiflash: EV0 to EV18
  
• Digipro, Starlite: EV-2.5 to EV18 (or EV2 to EV18 for the Starlite's 1 degree spot mode).

 

 

Interesting, Giordano, thank you. So in summary the M6 built-in meter is more sensitive than the handheld analogue meters and the digital meters appear to be far better in low light?

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[earleygallery]

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Interesting, Giordano, thank you. So in summary the M6 built-in meter is more sensitive than the handheld analogue meters and the digital meters appear to be far better in low light?

 

Indeed Bill, as I mentioned in my previous response, a digital meter is the way to go if you want accurate low light performance - which was also the requirement of the OP's question, but he chose to ignore most of the advice given.

[kenneth]

Indeed Bill, as I mentioned in my previous response, a digital meter is the way to go if you want accurate low light performance - which was also the requirement of the OP's question, but he chose to ignore most of the advice given.

 

No I do not ignore the advise given, otherwise it would be totally pointless wasting peoples time on this forum, I am just a little confused. I am sure that the M6 is as accurate as say a Weston V or a Sekonic L398 in general circumstances but what does one do when one wishes to get an accurate reading beyond the cameras metering capabilities. Say for instance the reading on an independent meter reads, for the sake of argument, f11 at 8 sec's. Having ascertained an exposure time I would assume that I set the camera on a tripod, set the dial to f11 the shutter dial to B and with a cable release open the shutter foe a period of 8 seconds monitored by my watch. Or am I missing something

[earleygallery]

That's correct, i.e. use a cable release and time the exposure. I would also bracket the exposure by a couple of seconds either way.

[kenneth]

That's correct, i.e. use a cable release and time the exposure. I would also bracket the exposure by a couple of seconds either way.

 

As they say, end of story, thank you

[NZDavid]

Not quite! Do let us know which one you choose. As you have noticed, the Leica forum is full of quite fiery voices -- but they can be very helpful, as I have discovered.

 

Which isn't to say that each of us has individual preferences. (To quote from Monty Python: "We're all individuals." One voice pipes up: "I'm not!")

 

So, the main question has to be: Why choose a handheld meter when the Leica M6 already has a very good built-in one? What will it do that the M6's meter won't? Well, first, it will be a backup should the M6's batteries give out after a dozen or so films. It happens. Second, try incident light metering. The meter meters light that falls on a subject, not the light that is reflected from it. That can be very helpful with an outdoor scene with lots of light and dark. The difference can be a few stops. But be careful if you are standing in a dark spot and the subject is in a light spot, or vice versa. It takes practice, and you don't need it all the time, but it's helpful. The Sekonic 308b has both incident and reflected metering. It's also a flash meter, but that's a whole lot more complex.

 

The Lunasix had a good reputation in its day, but it is also big and heavy. A small, light meter is much easier to take around. I'm not a fan of hotshoe meters, because I find they detract from the clean lines of the camera and affect the handling.

 

Best of luck!

 

David

David Killick, Freelance Journalist and Photographer, New Zealand

[giordano]

Interesting, Giordano, thank you. So in summary the M6 built-in meter is more sensitive than the handheld analogue meters and the digital meters appear to be far better in low light?

 

Hi Bill,

 

Analogue vs. digital doesn't directly affect sensitivity, which is mainly down to the sensor. In practice the "silicon" photoresistive sensors in modern meters are vastly more sensitive than the selenium photovoltaic cells in old-fashioned meters such as the Weston Masters, the L-398A and the first few generations of Leicameters.

 

Where digital comes in is in accuracy and reliability and (for built-in meters) small size. It's not easy or cheap to build a galvanometer movement that will work accurately across a range of even 10 stops, let alone the 18 to 21 required for a sensitive meter - and continue doing so through years of pro use. Gossen avoided the problem in the Lunasix and Lunapro by using a short-range galvanometer (6 stops) plus a long potentiometer: for basic operation you turn the ring until the galvanometer needle is centred - but in the long run pots are about as much trouble as meter movements.

 

Nowadays it's much cheaper to get the accuracy and ruggedness by connecting the sensor to an A-D converter and doing the rest digitally.

[budrichard]

If you have NOT used an M6 before, use the built in light meter BEFORE spending additional funds. I think you will find the meter on the M6 quite satisfactory and not only easier to use than a handheld but much faster.-Dick

[gyoung]

If you have NOT used an M6 before, use the built in light meter BEFORE spending additional funds. I think you will find the meter on the M6 quite satisfactory and not only easier to use than a handheld but much faster.-Dick

 

And quite honestly, if the subject is so dark it will need a time exposure of 8 seconds so much will depend on the nature of the subject and how you wish to record it that ANY meter will only be a guide, a lot of bracketing and/or experience is prudent to get a useable result.

 

Gerry

[dfbldwn]

I am just a little confused. Say for instance the reading on an independent meter reads, for the sake of argument, f11 at 8 sec's. Having ascertained an exposure time I would assume that I set the camera on a tripod, set the dial to f11 the shutter dial to B and with a cable release open the shutter foe a period of 8 seconds monitored by my watch. Or am I missing something

I have highlighted the salient phrase.

The Sekonic L-398, my all time favorite meter, will be useless in this situation unless you are shooting with ISO 50 or slower film. I personally could not use it in this situation (f/11 8 seconds) with film any faster than ISO 12. By specification it can just detect light that low, but at that end of the analog metering scale, I cannot distinguish between EV4, EV5 and EV8, they are so closely spaced together.

 

For low light, I use the Sekonic L-308.

 

Yes, I use both meters with my M7. That is so I don't have to deal with the wonky shutter speeds our admirable colleague Rob has on his mechanical MP and R6.

[haris]

Why to use handheld over camera inclulded meter? Mostly because of incident metering. For simple demonstration look at: Sekonic Classroom: Metering Techniques