Why from D2 to D3?

[wim]

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Hello people,

 

I fully agree with the opinions vented in this thread. I was eagerly awaiting a real upgrade (chip, size, evf, and firmware wise) to the Digilux 2. I wanted my next generation super compact! I was really disapointed when the Digilux 3 turned out to be a rebranded Panasonic L1.

The D-lux and Digilux labels should have been reserved for compacts only. The 4/3" DSLR should have been labeled otherwise.

 

The D-lux 3 is a darn pretty little camera - but it lacks the evf I would expect on a super compact. And although the D-lux 3 has a great lens, it is no match for the lens that's on the Digilux 2.

 

Well, maybe in a year or two...

 

Regards,

 

wim

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[MP3]

Hi Dear

 

Ever aware of the silent introduction of this, beg your pardon as I'm refering to a non-leica here. But let's imagine, apart from its plastic built, what it can possibly deliver in terms of image quality, compactness and handling with leica D-Lens. Though it's still too early to comment on it, it's size and form factor is definitely what 4/3 should mean to be. Let see, folks...

 

Best

Matthew

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[Guest stnami]

Hey that's my new home for my oly 11-22 lens and my new outhouse the Leica 25 will also take up residence next year some time.

Kodak sensor and it may end up as the new Kodak DSLR stateside but a oly in Europe??????

[jackart]

True, D3 should be baby-brother of D8, not DSLR. Like D2. Probably non-interchangeable lens, but bigger sensor (=less noise), new venus engine with raw buffer (ram is chep now) and thats it!

 

D3 is new and different class and not evolution of D2.

 

-Jaak

[gabek]

I'm a bit confused by Leica's development path of the D series, although they may be simply riding the coattails of Panasonic's designers and merely contributing lens technology by way of expanding their product range in the marketplace. I'm making the assumption that the Digilux 3 is not all that different from the Panasonic version, other than cosmetics and very few details.

 

I just read a thorough review of the Panasonic version of the Digilux 3 on Luminous Landscape that seems very even-handed and I recommend it to anyone who wants a better understanding of what the camera offers and the author's perceived positive attributes and shortcomings.

 

Sean Reid, do you have any experience with this camera and any opinions to offer in advance of a thorough review? (Very much enjoyed your M8 piece, BTW)

 

He lists five major areas of concern, none of which are trivial, in my opinion. Like many, I always wish I had the latest version of just about everything, but in this case, I can forego the lust for interchangeable lenses on the D cameras for what I have come to know and really appreciate about my Digilux 2. I prefer to buy another digital body that takes M lenses (dreams of a M8 keep me sleeping soundly), even if it means waiting for a Voigtlander offering. Based on his review, the Digilux 2 seems a more comfortable camera to handle, does not suffer the total lack of information about settings in the viewer (although the view is somewhat improved over the EV of the Digilux 2), requiring the user to constantly refer to the LCD by removing the camera from his/her face, and I think 5 megapixels does not compare all that unfavorably with the Digilux 3's larger sensor, given the ways in which I think the Digilux 2 offers more.

 

I parted with my M6 kit in a fit of poor judgment, but will never again sell a piece of Leica equipment. The Digilux 2 has a home with me.

 

Read the review and see what you think.

 

Gabe

[johnwolf]

Yes, that's why I am pondering skipping the D3 altogether and going the "heretic" way from D2 to 5D (full-frame Canon dSLR).

 

I did just that, Rob. I've been waiting for the announcement, hoping for a D2 upgrade--especially a significant jump in pixels. But the 5D is a lot more camera than the D3 for not that much more money, so I jumped in. I won't part with my D2, though. Together, I think they'll make a great combination.

[albertwang]

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upgrade--especially a significant jump in pixels. But the 5D is a lot more camera than the D3 for not that much more money, so I jumped in.

 

Thank goodness that I didn't go down that thought pattern

 

Plus no shutter speed dial... hmm... a lot more well, plastique?

[Guest stnami]

Albert stop being a dropkick and take your cannon phobia elsewhere....

[geoff]

It is true that the Digilux 3 is based on the Lumix DMC-L1, but at least Panasonic did not call it the Lumix DMC-LC2.

[david_parker]

Wow, I got so excited for a second there. A new Digilux!! I was brought down to earth moments later when I found out what it actually was. Sad...

 

What they need is simply a D2n...with the n meeting NEW. Same basic camera with new electronics. I mean the electronics in the D2 are, what, at least three years old now?

 

Well, anyway, Leica just saved me some bucks. And the D2 will still bring in a premium if i ever decide to sell it, which I probably never will. Anyone else noticing that uses D2s in prime shape still sell what they cost new? Amazing...

[adi sudarsono]

When I had the LC1, I often heard people saying how wonderful if it had interchangeable len (among other things). Now as the D2 has "grown up" there is a gap for the compact Leica which I don't think can be completely filled by the V-1.

 

This is because the D2 was the BEST non-135 mm digital camera of it's time. I think the D2 took the world by awe and people expect all Leica cameras to be like that. Well, I have my doubts also be cause the Olympus E330 is not the best camera in the world, but can it be that the L-1 / D-3 is so different? Can it be the best?

 

I hope so, I don't know yet. I bought the LC1 the first day it was sold, I hope to eventually buy the D3 (not L-1).

[dugby]

Actually all existing D2 and LC1 owners should be VERY VERY happy with the current product situation....(both Leica and non-Leica), and where we stand with owning a D2.

 

We all know how terrific the D2 images are, despite some minor idiosyncracies about the camera itself (which we've discussed too many times).

 

Our investments in the D2/LC1 are well and truly protected....by Leica's new product range.

 

Ebay prices for used D2's are definately on the rise, and anyone looking for one will start to recognise that the D2 is now 'collectable' as it sits in a very nice niche, that no other product compares.

 

If the D3 had been an "improved" D2, our D2's prices would plummet.... So really I am very thankful to Leica for the way the new product range stands today.

[sean_reid]

Sean Reid, do you have any experience with this camera and any opinions to offer in advance of a thorough review? (Very much enjoyed your M8 piece, BTW) Gabe

 

Thank you. I'm afraid that I haven't worked with the D3 yet but I will review it.

 

Cheers,

 

Sean

[Lucklik]

Like many others in this thread I don't consider the D3 as an upgrade for the D2.

I will not 'upgrade'

I would have prefered a D2.2 with a sensor with less noise (5Mb is OK)

A buffer for fast RAW shooting.

Faster AF

And an improved EVF

Less plastic, imagine a black painted D2.2 ;-)

 

rgs

Luc

[rob_x2004]

I love the way all the images are front on. Then when you see the side on it is just a thumping great big bucket of ..... So what. It will be superseded next year by something else. Its just Leicas digital merry go round camera they should have had available years ago to keep up with the jones's.

[spylaw4]

Like many others in this thread I don't consider the D3 as an upgrade for the D2.

I will not 'upgrade'

I would have prefered a D2.2 with a sensor with less noise (5Mb is OK)

A buffer for fast RAW shooting.

Faster AF

And an improved EVF

Less plastic, imagine a black painted D2.2 ;-)

 

rgs

Luc

 

I haven't joined in the D2 vs.D3 discussions as yet - but here's for what it's worth is my 2p contribution.

 

I agree that the D3 is not an upgrade from the D2 - it's a different camera using a different working scenario.

 

Basically I think almost eveyone has the right idea for an upgrade to the D2 which I really really love using, even with it's current deficiencies.

 

In no particular order.

1. Much improved RAW buffer

2. Much better EVF

3. No real need for yet more pixels but a need for improved firmware and processing - Venus III on the existing sensor perhaps would be a start.

4. Less shutter delay if possible

 

Oh, and one more thing (.

 

The only reason I might at some point look at the D3 is a long lens which, good though the 90mm is I miss. So maybe...

5. A Tele adapter 1.5 or 2x.

 

I'm not worried about finish colour but maybe a black option would be ok, or is that too like the Panasonic?

 

I hope that Leica are listening to the profusion of remarks along this theme and will seriously consider what we are asking. The basic camera development cost must have been covered and I am sure that an improved version will really sell - even though it will hit our second hand prices!

[Guest stnami]

,,,,,, Leica need a DSLR, as the kids say a Leica is that good? Sure is now as there is a real camera the D-3 because it has a big lens and doesn't have those funny lines inside

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[Guest stnami]

and............ the D3 will make a lot of people happy

[geoff]

Actually all existing D2 and LC1 owners should be VERY VERY happy with the current product situation....(both Leica and non-Leica), and where we stand with owning a D2.

 

We all know how terrific the D2 images are, despite some minor idiosyncracies about the camera itself (which we've discussed too many times).

 

Our investments in the D2/LC1 are well and truly protected....by Leica's new product range.

 

Ebay prices for used D2's are definately on the rise, and anyone looking for one will start to recognise that the D2 is now 'collectable' as it sits in a very nice niche, that no other product compares.

 

If the D3 had been an "improved" D2, our D2's prices would plummet.... So really I am very thankful to Leica for the way the new product range stands today.

 

 

The issue here it not one of monetary value and retention. It’s about functionality. I don’t care about how much my Digilux 2 is worth, how much it cost, or whether it’s made by Leica, Panasonic, or someone else.

 

I care about having continual access to a “tool” that enables me to conduct the type of photography I perform.

 

The Leica Digilux 2 uniqueness and strength was not in one feature alone but the sum of various ergonomics and technologies that has not been replicated by anyone else to date including Leica and Panasonic.

 

I found the Digilux 2 to be more of a extension of myself in use than any other photographic tool I have ever used, be it SLR, rangefinder, et cetera.

 

my Leica

 

A Leica is not just a camera.

It is an instrument you create with.

It is your hands and eyes.

It is a part of you.

 

Ironic that one of the best product examples that typifies Leica’s new international ad campaign is no longer available or philosophically continued. Yet more than anything this is what a Leica and the red dot means to me. Functionality. Not collectibility and monetary worth.

[kobold]

I think I will need to see what the Raw write times for the D3 are. I agree with other posters who wrote that this is not an upgrage from the D2 (or my LC-1)—it's a new camera and a different shooting philosophy. Leica's version of the L1 will need to have addressed the Raw write times, for sure. I think the IS will be useful, if my experiences with Canon's IS lenses is anything to go by, and being a stop slower—if sharp wide open—will not be a problem (the bokeh differences between the D2 and D3 should go in favour of the D3, even though ƒ2.8 rather than ƒ2, because the sensor is so much larger).

 

As well, I want to see how fast the AF system is. I have other cameras for more exacting work, but I doubt that I will sell the LC-1. It is, as I have written elsewhere, as close to a complete camera kit as I have come across, not the least reason of which is that snazzy little flash (so good at filling outdoors) and the totally silent shutter. I am not a fan of the EVF, but only use it for framing. KL's 2¢'s worth