Interview with Kaufmann

[dpattinson]

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Kaufmann's words, in the interview, "to assure that analog photography continues to be a key element of photographic education at the highest levels" and "Incidentally we will show something else significant for the M system at Photokina, not just lenses"

 

I reckon it will be a film back for the M8.

 

Sang

 

Isn't the M7 a film back for the M8?

[delander †]

With regard to Nikon, I get the feeling that the D3, new lenses and forthcoming D3X? have done a lot for the reputation of Nikon and the feeling within the company. There is a decent following for a digital rangefinder and it is much larger than the market Leica addresses with the expensive M8 and lenses.

 

I reckon at watch out for the Nikon RF at Photokina ................

 

Jeff

[calshot]

I am due to retire September 27th so lets hope they bring outsomething nice that I would be able to afford. M8 way to much for me.I am not sure if I want to go s/h film route. Exciting time ahead. As long as the pound dosn't crash and my pension fund goes ascrew

Rob

[rob_x2004]

As long as the pound dosn't crash and my pension fund goes ascrew

 

Your pound is a lot less of a worry than Leica fffffing something up again and having to lift their prices again to cover their arse.

[jaapv]

If you feel that way, why do you even contemplate buying the stuff?

[sdai]

If all Dr. Kaufmann knows about Nikon is a rumor, do you think they are working on something together? plus ... the R lenses will not work on a Nikon camera unless you can persuade Nikon to re-engineer the F mount.

 

Leica is against Zeiss. Nikon is against Canon. Zeiss knows Nikon would build a FF DSLR so they introduced the ZF lenses, they also knew Nikon would work on a M bayonet rangefinder so they built the ZM lenses.

 

I only hope the Nikon rangefinder has not more than 10.4 megapixels, stay with 1.5x ... don't try to be larger than 1.33x, don't use a Kodak sensor (and they won't). Don't shoot ISO 1250 and above. Also, put on an AA filter so forum members will feel a lot better.

[AlanG]

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I feel we're still a long way from an EVF that comes close to matching a decent optical finder for resolution/acuity, dynamic range and response time. Also, is it possible for a CCD or CMOS sensor to switch from live view, make the exposure and switch back to live view as fast as an SLR mirror can move?

 

It doesn't have to be as good as an optical finder to still be very useful. Especially with static objects. And especially especially if there is not going to be a Leica DSLR solution.

 

Besides its limitations, an EVF has some advantages - tilted or remote viewing, ability to magnify part of the image to check focus, live histograms, and the possibility for focus confirmation at any spot on the screen. Plus the live view would work on the regular rear LCD also. So you may not even need to use the clip on EVF for some kinds of work.

 

Consider that virtually all of the recently introduced DSLRs have live view. Is this a feature that Leica is going to turn its back on and say, "Our customers don't need it?" I think once photographers start using it, they'll find it useful for some applications.

 

Further consider that live view is more useful on a rangefinder than it is on a DSLR. It will allow for accurate framing, focus, and depth of field verification. You can see the effect of using a polarizer or graduated filter. And you can also see if a light or the sun is causing flare, thus giving you an opportunity to shade the lens with your hand or a gobo. Plus it will allow for a great variety of lenses to be used including long lenses, macro, micro, and tilt/shift.

[luigi bertolotti]

Hmmm, what about a compact digital camera with live view on the screen. Takes M lenses, has a viewfinder with electronic frames and parallax comp - but no RF or short base RF. With electronic focus confirm in the viewfinder. I dunno - but some variation on that would be a very sweet second camera.

 

(and test out a lot of stuff that could go into a M9)

 

THIS ! Could be the "Digital CL" some of us think of... haven't idea of how it works electronic focus confirm, but this is a limitation of mine... surely something does exist...

[andybarton]

The EVF would have to be 100x better than any other I have seen to get me to even think about buying one.

 

How anyone can use a Digilux 2 with that EVF is beyond me. I respect everyone who can get a decent shot from one, and it seems to me that there's no way on earth that an EVF could be used with anythiong other than autofocus.

[luigi bertolotti]

I hope Dr. Kaufmann will not be offended by the Anglo-Saxon habit of dropping honorifics when discussing somebody...

 

I'm not an Anglo Saxon... but really it's such a typical attitude of them that I tend to acquire it when write in English... none of the many people who write to me from UK or USA use with me the salutation "Ing." which damn is clearly written in my business card !!!

[luigi bertolotti]

Kaufmann's words, in the interview, "to assure that analog photography continues to be a key element of photographic education at the highest levels" and "Incidentally we will show something else significant for the M system at Photokina, not just lenses"

 

I reckon it will be a film back for the M8.

 

Sang

 

The reported donation of 20 M4-2 and M4-P proves that Leica is maybe the only company that can be appreciated for donating >20 years old gear ... but they are reportedly fitted with new Summarits, indeed...

[bill]

I hope Dr. Kaufmann will not be offended by the Anglo-Saxon habit of dropping honorifics when discussing somebody...

 

Jaap, we are of one mind on this. I find it rude in the extreme to address someone, or refer to them by the naked patronymic.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[jaapv]

Jaap, we are of one mind on this. I find it rude in the extreme to address someone, or refer to them by the naked patronymic.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

 

Popphoto does it as well...

[AlanG]

... and it seems to me that there's no way on earth that an EVF could be used with anything other than autofocus.

 

Well... I gave a list of uses for an EVF or live view on the LCD in a post above. Keep in mind that a lot of photography is of static subjects - e.g. product photography, food, landscapes, architecture, interiors, copy work, macro, photomicroscopy. The simple addition of live view takes nothing away from the M8 for quick work yet adds so much more flexibility to it.

 

At one time Leicas were used for copy work, macro, photomicroscopy, etc. And Leica made specialized accessories to facilitate these traditonal roles. But then SLRs took over most of these applications.

 

Here's an example of an ad I shot some years ago that required a low perspective. I used an Olympus E-10 with a tilting screen and it was easy. Even with a DSLR and a right angle finder, this would be hard - a pain in the neck and the back. I really miss this feature in my DSLRs but still have it on my Konica/Minolta A2. So I could use that camera in a pinch.

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[andybarton]

I am not talking about live view, where you see an image on the back of the camera a-la D Lux 3, for example.

 

I am talking about looking through a viewfinder onto a TV screen. Not good, IMHO.

[andybarton]

I hope Dr. Kaufmann will not be offended by the Anglo-Saxon habit of dropping honorifics when discussing somebody...

 

It's not an Anglo-Saxon thing.

 

I would not have written the thread title as it stands - anyone who has earned a title such as "Doctor" should be shown some respecft, IMHO.

 

I am tempted to go back and edit the thread title

[veraikon]

The reported donation of 20 M4-2 and M4-P proves that Leica is maybe the only company that can be appreciated for donating >20 years old gear ... but they are reportedly fitted with new Summarits, indeed...

 

To explain the donation of the M4-Ps/M4-2s to Rochester Institute of Technologies (RIT) School of Photographic Arts and Sciences (in RFF this donation was a hot-topic ) - the background of the story:

Kaufmann spoke in a former interview about. The idea was born when Kaufmann was at a meeting in Rochester (LHS??) and one of the RIT professors talked with him about the renaissance of film photography and the lack of equivalent cameras in the RIT equipment. As far as I know from the interview M4-P etc were chosen because they are full mechanical and without metering. Students should learn from the basics. For details why a M4-P and not a MP without battery was chosen we should ask the prof or Kaufmann. As far as I know they got what they wanted.

I hope this makes it clearer

[AlanG]

I am not talking about live view, where you see an image on the back of the camera a-la D Lux 3, for example.

 

I am talking about looking through a viewfinder onto a TV screen. Not good, IMHO.

 

Yes there are limitations but you get used to them if necessary. I think the biggest problem with most cameras that employ EVFs is that the cameras are slow, the AF may hunt and the result is not a very responsive camera. But it doesn't always have to be this way.

 

I agree that the view through an EVF is not as good as through an optical viewfinder and probably never will be because an EVF cannot approach the brightness range that our eyes can see through an optical finder. Yet the trade off can bring many advantages that won't be a problem if Leica also keeps its regular viewfinder in an M or at least some kind of optical viewfinder in future pro model P&S. (Their current P&S models don't have an optical viewfinder. That is why I have a Canon P&S.)

[AlanG]

To explain the donation of the M4-Ps/M4-2s to Rochester Institute of Technologies (RIT) School of Photographic Arts and Sciences (in RFF this donation was a hot-topic ) - the background of the story:

Kaufmann spoke in a former interview about. The idea was born when Kaufmann was at a meeting in Rochester (LHS??) and one of the RIT professors talked with him about the renaissance of film photography and the lack of equivalent cameras in the RIT equipment. As far as I know from the interview M4-P etc were chosen because they are full mechanical and without metering. Students should learn from the basics. For details why a M4-P and not a MP without battery was chosen we should ask the prof or Kaufmann. As far as I know they got what they wanted.

I hope this makes it clearer

 

As an RIT alumnus I think this is really weird. They already have a bunch of Sinar P and other view cameras to teach students "the basics" as you put it. And those cameras can use film. I can't see the school turning down a donation. But how useful this will be to those students' future careers is questionable to me.

 

I can't see any reason for any school to be teaching film photography these days. Except perhaps in a fine arts course. In general, it is too expensive for students to afford to shoot and process film at a time when they really need to shoot a lot in their learning process. Plus the immediate feedback from digital is great for learning and instruction. (I know this from personal experience as I recently taught a class.)

 

It makes me recall my days there and having to learn dye transfer printing... That technology was pretty much obsolete at the time (1972) and hasn't proven to be very useful to me since. But because they had a big dye transfer facility, they thought they should use it. According to RIT's website, the school still has 106 student darkrooms and a bunch of processing machines. So maybe they feel they need to use them.

 

On the other hand, I remember when the printing school got its photo type setting equipment. It made a whole room of Linotype machines obsolete and they trashed them. The same thing surely happened with process cameras when they got drum scanners.

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[giordano]

It doesn't have to be as good as an optical finder to still be very useful. Especially with static objects. And especially especially if there is not going to be a Leica DSLR solution.

 

Besides its limitations, an EVF has some advantages - tilted or remote viewing, ability to magnify part of the image to check focus, live histograms, and the possibility for focus confirmation at any spot on the screen. Plus the live view would work on the regular rear LCD also. So you may not even need to use the clip on EVF for some kinds of work.

 

Consider that virtually all of the recently introduced DSLRs have live view. Is this a feature that Leica is going to turn its back on and say, "Our customers don't need it?" I think once photographers start using it, they'll find it useful for some applications.

 

Further consider that live view is more useful on a rangefinder than it is on a DSLR. It will allow for accurate framing, focus, and depth of field verification. You can see the effect of using a polarizer or graduated filter. And you can also see if a light or the sun is causing flare, thus giving you an opportunity to shade the lens with your hand or a gobo. Plus it will allow for a great variety of lenses to be used including long lenses, macro, micro, and tilt/shift.

 

I agree live view would be useful, especially for static work, and I've no objection to it as long as it doesn't destroy some other feature that's more important to me.

 

But some posts in this thread seem to be suggesting that an EVF could replace the optical viewfinder/rangefinder, which seems a non-starter to me. I also doubt whether using the image sensor for focusing (AF or manual) can match the speed and accuracy of either an M rangefinder or a top-flight DSLR AF system (with secondary mirror and specialised focus sensor).