Photokina 2008 - What do you think?

[like_no_other]

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They got CM-D 2.4 40mm 4/3 .7 converter, I go.

 

Leica will be happy to go back to the film camera portfolio to transfer it's structure into the digital portfolio. So they can adopt their former portfolio management strategies and processes because this makes decisions far more easy for them.

Concerning sensor sizes this means that we will see FF sensors in all of Leica's better cameras more sooner than later. The CM-D should be one of these better cameras.

Their only decision making issue is which comes first, the zoom or fixed focal version of the CM-D? The company's internal discussions and arguing about the best decision could easily lead to no CM-D this year.

[thomasl.se]

^^

 

If they need someone to suggest a fastish 40mm fixed with .optional 7 converter rather than a sluggish zoom, I can be that person.

FF in a pocketable f2.4... do we get a silver edition?

 

edit: zooms have their place of course; a step zoom would be interesting.

[lct]

...Concerning sensor sizes this means that we will see FF sensors in all of Leica's better cameras more sooner than later. The CM-D should be one of these better cameras....

I would like it too but i don't think so.

When you see vignetting ouf of Nikon or Canon lenses on FF bodies, it sounds like the M8 will remain a cropped body for some more time i'm afraid.

Reason why Kaufman said that the M8 is not a transition product i guess.

As for the digital CM and/or CL it is hardly credible that they would have a larger sensor than that of the M8.

Then i bet for an APS-C sensor in order not to compete too hard against the M8.

The only FF or 'more than FF' body should be the next R then, but i may be wrong of course.

[AlanG]

I would like it too but i don't think so.

When you see vignetting ouf of Nikon or Canon lenses on FF bodies, it sounds like the M8 will remain a cropped body for some more time i'm afraid...

 

I keep hearing this but vignetting occurred with film cameras also. A lot of people probably weren't so critical and overlooked it. Photographers often use center filters when using wide angle view camera lenses. My Rodenstock 35mm Apo Grandagon still has vignetting on 6x9 even with a center filter. But I had no option but to accept it or light to compensate for it.

 

Attached are two images that I shot some years ago with a Nikon film camera and a 20mm f3.5 on slide film. The vignetting is much worse than anything I get on a FF Canon with any of my wides. (Even zooms.) I actually kind of like the vignetting on these two shots. Of course DXO and other software can completely eliminate vignetting so it becomes a non-issue.

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[sdai]

You guys should read the whining and yawning on the Sigma forum at dpreview.com ... they've used a 1.7x sensor and failed to make many people happy.

 

There might be a digital CM down the road, IMHO it will only use a tiny digicam sensor, like those found in the Canon G9. If Leica really could build something like the G9, it's bound to be more popular than the rebadged LX1 or LX2.

 

Sayonara, Panasonic.

[like_no_other]

I would like it too but i don't think so.

When you see vignetting ouf of Nikon or Canon lenses on FF bodies, it sounds like the M8 will remain a cropped body for some more time i'm afraid.

Reason why Kaufman said that the M8 is not a transition product i guess.

As for the digital CM and/or CL it is hardly credible that they would have a larger sensor than that of the M8.

Then i bet for an APS-C sensor in order not to compete too hard against the M8.

The only FF or 'more than FF' body should be the next R then, but i may be wrong of course.

 

I don't think that a camera with an unchangeable lens falls into direct competition of a changeable lens systems camera. It (CM-D) can be a supplement to owners of system cameras (M8 or other) and as that be most competitive towards other compact cameras by incorporating the larger sensor. The other customer segment that prefers going along solely with a compact camera will be happy with the larger sensor as well.

 

As for Lee's and Kaufman's stories about the next generation M I got it, and the possibilty is high that I got it wrong, that Lee stated somewhere that there will be a FF M soon which indicates that it is technical possible and probably already developed, whereas Kaufman later on played the role of the more sensible marketing expert who tends towards longer product cycles to preserve product value for the customer.

 

As an add on to my last post, I think Leica will (or should;-) ) copy it's former film product portfolio. This means equal quality for the storage medium (film/sensor) of the products and differentiation by other product characteristics which could follow more or less the strategies they pursued in film photography times. So they could largely use their experiences for succesful product positioning and follow regular cycles for portfolio updates by updating sensors. Maybe they could even optimize their sensor sourcing in that way.

[grduprey]

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SL 10

 

 

Doug, I'll let you know, I will be there for 3 days, and also hope for a SL viewfinder'd DSLR.

 

Gene

[Jamie Roberts]

As for frame size, I guess Leica could well have a 1.3 crop and a full frame product, just like Canon, for those who prefer a no-vignette strategy and a bit more "reach" on the longer glass.

 

Myself, I'd jump on a full frame digital M in a heartbeat, since that would restore wide lenses to "wide" status. A little vignetting will cut down on my post processing

 

As for Photokina, I'd like to see a new M and R digital like everyone else.

[veraikon]

Q3 exactly; late Sept approximately: 23.-28.09.2008.

photokina - Startpage photokina 2008 - koelnmesse GmbH

.

LEICA CAMERA AG Germany Hall 02.1 Stand C040 / D049

.....................................................................C050 / D041

.....................................................................C050 / D041

.....................................................................C038 / D039

....................................................................."Weitblick" Bühne / Unit 5

koelnmesse - Besuchsplanung

[offshore]

The only full frame sensor camera we'll see from Leica at Photokina will be a 22MP DSLR. As for a rangefinder the M8 is a superb camera with the sensor it has and will stay as it is for a few more years. More than likely we'll see a compact M camera similar to the CLE that was originally supposed to sell for under $3,000 in the US but the weakened dollar has already elevated that price over $3,000. Still, if it has any of the potential of the M8 it would be an inexpensive (in Leica terms) second or back up rangefinder.

[RobMac]

I'll take come guesses:

 

1. Couple of PanaLeica Dlux bodies

 

2. Big push to get M into more hands via marketing for low-light and discrete work by pros and by making more affordable to rest. Thus:

 

2a More lower-priced M lenses

2b Lower, entry-priced M8. Since limited ways to make a 'cheap' RF maybe polycarbonate vs. metal body, lower pixel count, etc.

2c More M8 kit combinations

 

3 FF M9 - maybe, but LOTS of tech challenges there given shallow registration. Maybe a FF M9 concept under glass to wet some appetities.

 

4. An 'R10' (may be called something different) in one of two forms:

 

4a A FF PanaLeica uber-Dlux_ that will take older R glass and maybe 2-3 new AF zoom lenses.

4b A true (R9esque) R10 concept camera under glass.

 

Bear in mind a 3x booth doesn't necessarily mean massive number new products - may just mean a much bigger marketing push of existing or tweaked products to increase share.

 

I would tend to think if Leica had a uber-R10 AF body they would try and get some marketing out around the Olympics time frame. Advertising, some nice 'gentle' AF captures, teams shots, cultural background captures, etc.

Releasing a significant new body after the fact when the D3x is already out, etc., will lose a lot of thunder. The Olympics is going to steal some of the importance of Photokina this year.

[lct]

The only full frame sensor camera we'll see from Leica at Photokina will be a 22MP DSLR. As for a rangefinder the M8 is a superb camera with the sensor it has and will stay as it is for a few more years. More than likely we'll see a compact M camera similar to the CLE...

Heard some rumours alike, save that the compact M would be similar to the CL in that its RF FoV would not be as large as 28mm contrary to the CLE.

But my sources are only rumours so far.

May i ask you if you refer to facts instead?

[Donald]

Has anyone considered the following? Leica after years of loss and changing ownership is running out of money and hanging on to what it has. So keeping the M-line up, continuing the deal with Panasonic and with no expertise or money to develop a DSLR producing Leica lenses with a different mount eg like Sigma does and thus making money?

[masjah]

Heard some rumours alike, save that the compact M would be similar to the CL in that its RF FoV would not be as large as 28mm contrary to the CLE.

But my sources are only rumours so far.

May i ask you if you refer to facts instead?

 

I don't use M cameras, but isn't it the case that the focussing demands of the digital sensor already push the capabilities of the rangefinder system on the M8 to the very limits. Would this not be a significant problem in any such compact M camera with an even shorter rangefinder base length?

[wildlightphoto]

Has anyone considered the following?

 

Hundreds of times. Search the archives. And your assumptions about Leica's financial position are off base.

[lct]

....Would this not be a significant problem in any such compact M camera with an even shorter rangefinder base length?

Hi John. My Epson DRFs have such a short RF but i can use 50mm lenses at f/1.4, 75mm ones at f/2.8 and 90mm ones at f/4 with them, plus any wides of course. Not far from the Leica CL which had a great success 30 years ago.

[offshore]

Heard some rumours alike, save that the compact M would be similar to the CL in that its RF FoV would not be as large as 28mm contrary to the CLE.

But my sources are only rumours so far.

May i ask you if you refer to facts instead?

 

The world of marketing products, specifically photographic products, has assumed the cloak and dagger aspect of cold war secrecy. In the 16 years I've been in photographic retail sales I've witnessed the role of reps go from visiting months ahead of time to train us on the upcoming new equipment to having to sign non-disclosure statements to the effect that if they leak anything before the official announcement they will be fired. This being the case there are still games we can play to get information i.e. nod once if I'm right, nod twice if I'm wrong. On the DSLR and the compact M I got one nod. My information is based on fact given that Leica is not spreading dis-information to keep other manufacturers in the dark. Confusing isn't it?

[lct]

...there are still games we can play to get information i.e. nod once if I'm right, nod twice if I'm wrong...Confusing isn't it?