earleygallery Posted March 27, 2008 Share #141 Posted March 27, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) There's an article about this subject in the Amateur Photographer today, I've not had a chance to read it yet, but thank you Damien! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 27, 2008 Posted March 27, 2008 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here Advice to photographers in Uk. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
IMast Posted March 27, 2008 Share #142 Posted March 27, 2008 Bill I have had a response from my MP and have subsequently, at his request, sent him links to certain articles in your thread. He will revert to me next week as he is returning here this pm. I don't know whether it is because I know him personally that I got a very prompt reply to my original email - don't they employ researchers to find out about matters? " Ian - Thanks for that. I'm just leaving London for the constituency. I'll look at the articles next week and revert. Best, David David Jones, MP /AS (Clwyd West / Gorllewin Clwyd) Shadow Minister for Wales / Gweinidog yr Wrthblaid dros Gymru House of Commons Westminster LONDON SW1A 0AA 020 7219 8070 " Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share #143 Posted March 27, 2008 Ian, that is excellent. It'll be very interesting to hear his response. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share #144 Posted March 27, 2008 Letter sent, thanks Pete for the link. The text of my letter reads as follows: I am writing to you to express my concerns about the extent to which recent incidents and developments in the UK have contributed to a climate of suspicion directed at amateur photographers. There have been a number of well-publicised incidents recently in which PCSOs and police officers have confronted and wrongly accused amateur photographers. Now there is a police anti-terror campaign that further seeks to call the behavior of amateur photographers into question. Photography of people and public places is a legitimate and enjoyable pastime with a long and honourable tradition. It is legal to photograph people and public places with or without their knowledge or permission. I am writing to you as my elected representative both to draw this to your attention and to seek your active support in the House of Commons to speak out against this creeping criminalisation of a harmless pastime. Feel free to use the text above, or to write your own, but PLEASE WRITE. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted March 27, 2008 Share #145 Posted March 27, 2008 There's an article about this subject in the Amateur Photographer today, I've not had a chance to read it yet, but thank you Damien! Ah, I see the article mentions our Mr Barton! With the wheels set in motion lets keep up the momentum, please all do take a few moments to drop an e mail to your MP raising your concerns over these issues. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 28, 2008 Share #146 Posted March 28, 2008 The best laid plans of mice and men etc. After having emailed my MP, Andrew Pelling, to lobby Parliament on my behalf in this matter I've just discovered that he's off on indefinite sick leave for clinical depression after being arrested on suspicion of assaulting his pregnant wife. Ottaway Covers Pellings Sick Leave (from Your Local Guardian) Can I borrow someone else's MP please? I will similarly email Richard Ottaway. Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted March 29, 2008 Share #147 Posted March 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) From the Sacramento (California) Bee newspaper: WOODLAND – Gilbert Chan, a business reporter at The Bee, pleaded not guilty Friday to a felony charge of possession of child pornography. Chan, 52, of Davis was arrested after trying to conceal a camera he was using to videotape a youth cheerleading competition at UC Davis on Feb. 3, police said. Yolo County prosecutors filed a complaint alleging a single felony count of possessing obscene matter depicting sexual conduct of a person under 18. Chan's lawyer, Steven Sabbadini, questioned the charge. "What he did was film fully clothed cheerleaders during a public performance," he said. "The question is whether that fits the definition of child pornography." The charge carries a maximum penalty of three years in prison. It also can be reduced to a misdemeanor. Chan, who was not on duty at the time of the incident, is on administrative leave from The Bee. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 29, 2008 Author Share #148 Posted March 29, 2008 So. I sent my letter as shown above, and today I got a response. The Rt. Hon. Andrew MacKay M.P. wrote: "Thank you for yesterday's email which I read with a great deal of sympathy. I think you are maiking a valid point in this age of over-regulation and that is why I have been a co-sponsor of the enclosed Early Day Motion which I hope will put pressure on the Government and public bodies." He enclosed a copy of the Austin Mitchell Early Day Motion together with a list of the 99 other MPs who signed it. Send more. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted March 31, 2008 Share #149 Posted March 31, 2008 I've just read the article in Amateur Photographer - thanks, Damien! Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted March 31, 2008 Share #150 Posted March 31, 2008 I've written this morning to my MP (Meg Hillier) and also to the various London Assembly Members thrown up by that useful Write to Them website. I have urged the LA members to raise the Matter with the MPA, and I would hope that all London Forum members would follow me in writing to the LA. Now for the main Mayoral candidates! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share #151 Posted March 31, 2008 Now for the main Mayoral candidates! VERY good point... Boris...? Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MPerson Posted March 31, 2008 Share #152 Posted March 31, 2008 Searching Hansard brings up some interesting stuff. In questions to the Home Office Minister on the 18 February the Dept gave this reply: Hansard Online: 18 Feb 2008 Public Order Offences: Photography Mrs. Moon: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department if she will issue guidance to police forces on steps which may be taken against persons taking photographs in public places. Mr. McNulty: The police may remove persons from public areas, prevent filming or confiscate equipment where they are responding to an offence or where they suspect an offence is about to happen in order to prevent it from being committed. They may also take action to prevent a breach of the peace. In such cases the police may require a person to leave a place or prevent them from entering a public area where their presence is likely to cause a breach of the peace. Police tactics and decisions on how to achieve these objectives are a matter for the independent judgment of chief officers of police. If that is the advice police forces are being given then it explains a lot. The last sentence is the most telling though! I am in London shooting every weekend - early Sat & Sun mornings - and have only ever had one problem from an over zealous private security guard. I was in a public street and I insisted he called the police which he refused to do, so I did. They duly arrived and I let him explain the problem, they then explained to him that his "jurisdiction" ended at the buildings (land) perimeter and if he thought there was a problem outside of his remit that he should call the police. He left with a flea firmly inserted in his ear. Unless it is serious do not use 999. Ring Scotland Yard direct on: 020 7230 1212 they will then field your call to the relevant area/borough. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share #153 Posted March 31, 2008 Get in touch : Back Boris for Mayor of London Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted March 31, 2008 Share #154 Posted March 31, 2008 Thanks for that link Bill, here are the others: Get in touch with Ken Livingstone - although I am not sure if you'll get a meaningful response. Unlikely both for success and because he's an ex-policeman, but - Brian Paddick and finally The Greens although you will have to tick at least one of the "suppport" boxes to submit the message form - Grrrr! I've written to all four. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocker Posted March 31, 2008 Share #155 Posted March 31, 2008 Brian - having seen you in the flesh in the British museum last week I have no doubt that with you on our side we will crush them! :) Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/47106-advice-to-photographers-in-uk/?do=findComment&comment=525412'>More sharing options...
bill Posted March 31, 2008 Author Share #156 Posted March 31, 2008 I have written a variant of my original letter to Boris, as follows: I am writing to you to express my concerns about the extent to which recent incidents and developments in the UK and in London in particular have contributed to a climate of suspicion directed at amateur photographers. There have been a number of well-publicised incidents recently in which PCSOs and police officers have confronted and wrongly accused amateur photographers. Now there is a Metropolitan Police anti-terror campaign that further seeks to call the behavior of amateur photographers into question. Photography of people and public places is a legitimate and enjoyable pastime with a long and honourable tradition. It is legal to photograph people and public places with or without their knowledge or permission. I am writing to you both to draw this to your attention and to seek your active support by using the platform of your campaign to speak out against this creeping criminalisation of a harmless pastime that brings millions of pounds in tourist revenues into London every year. Regards, Bill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
farnz Posted April 1, 2008 Share #157 Posted April 1, 2008 Well, I emailed my MP Andrew Pelling but today I received a letter from Richard Ottaway MP which reads: "Dear Mr F@rnsworth As you are aware you are not in fact one of my constituents. However, I am currently assisting with (his) constituency work whilst your own MP, Andrew Pelling, is on sick leave and it is on that basis that I am writing to you. Your e-mail concerned photography in public places. I believe it is important that people are aware of what their rights are. You are right that, except in exceptional circumstances, it is not an offence to take photographs in public places, indeed, thousands of people do all through the UK every day. When there are serious concerns about national security, such as at military airports and power stations, there are provisions for photography being restricted; however, in general Government buildings are not covered. Indeed, the Houses of Parliament must be one of the most photographed buildings in the world and, whilst the Metropolitan police are running an anti-terrorism campaign encouraging the reporting of suspicious behaviour, including photographing sensitive buildings, I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers. I am not empowered to sign EDMs in the House on behalf of Andrew Pelling's constituents and therefore am unable to sign EDM 1155. Yours etc Richard Ottaway MP" The old political two-step: 'I agree with you but my hands are tied and I can do nothing.' He may be unable to sign it on my MP's behalf but surely he can do so on his own recognisance?! Foiled by the fickle finger of fate! I include below a link to EDM 1155, which shows how many MP's signatures it has and who they are so you can check if your MP has signed yet. On the bright side, there are currently 107 MP's signatures, which is many more than most of the other current EDMs (and in particular the important 'Tea Lights' EDM, which proposes that the government works with manufacturers to make Tea Lights safer. ) Richard Ottaway has signed a good number of other EDMs but my MP Andrew Pelling has signed zero - and he's had ample opportunity in the 2 to 3 years before he 'fell' sick. UK Parliament - Early Day Motions By Details Any suggestions how I can raise the profile of this EDM (since I don't appear to currently be represented in Parliament)? Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTD Posted April 1, 2008 Share #158 Posted April 1, 2008 Glad to say our MP (John Leech) and someone I used to work with (Ian Stewart) have both signed it – I'll write to both of them saying how glad I was to see their support. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
spylaw4 Posted April 2, 2008 Share #159 Posted April 2, 2008 Following my raising of the issue with the London Assembly members I have today received the following from Jennette Arnold: "Brian Thanks For your email and I am always ready to speak up in defence of our rights. Yours is the first letter that I have received about this issue and I will certainly raise it post the May elections at the first opportunity. I will also follow Austin Mitchells EDM As our lives would be so much poorer if we did not have images such as the famous post war Kiss in Times Square. Regards Jennette" I have also received this "Dear Mr Parkes, Thank you for your email. I agree with your concerns. The London Assembly is not like a Parliament where you can 'raise' matters for debate. We can ask the Mayor questions in public as part of our role to 'hold him to account' but he would probably refer a question about this to the MPA. In any case, there are no more opportunities to ask any questions until after the Election. Some members of the London Assembly are appointed to the MPA but who these members will be will not be known until after the GLA Elections on May 1st. Best Regards, Peter Hulme Cross One London Group London Assembly" A bit less positive I feel except for the initial few words. I have not yet heard back form my MP who I note has not (yet) signed the EDM. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted April 2, 2008 Share #160 Posted April 2, 2008 Pete, I live in the same area as you, and had the exact same reply from Richard Ottoway! I'm disappointed by his response quite frankly and will be responding with a copy of the AP article and links or copies of this and similar threads, contact details for in-public.com etc., so that he can do some follow up research (yeah right). I will also offer to 'empower' him to sign the EDM on my behalf given that he is acting MP, and c.c. to Central Govt, in view of the fact that we are not being properly represented. I'm also curious as to why he thinks restrictions only apply to military sites etc - the posters make no such distinctions. I will print and enclose a copy of the poster as he clearly hasn't seen it. Well, I emailed my MP Andrew Pelling but today I received a letter from Richard Ottaway MP which reads: "Dear Mr F@rnsworth As you are aware you are not in fact one of my constituents. However, I am currently assisting with (his) constituency work whilst your own MP, Andrew Pelling, is on sick leave and it is on that basis that I am writing to you. Your e-mail concerned photography in public places. I believe it is important that people are aware of what their rights are. You are right that, except in exceptional circumstances, it is not an offence to take photographs in public places, indeed, thousands of people do all through the UK every day. When there are serious concerns about national security, such as at military airports and power stations, there are provisions for photography being restricted; however, in general Government buildings are not covered. Indeed, the Houses of Parliament must be one of the most photographed buildings in the world and, whilst the Metropolitan police are running an anti-terrorism campaign encouraging the reporting of suspicious behaviour, including photographing sensitive buildings, I am not aware that this has led to any harassment of photographers. I am not empowered to sign EDMs in the House on behalf of Andrew Pelling's constituents and therefore am unable to sign EDM 1155. Yours etc Richard Ottaway MP" The old political two-step: 'I agree with you but my hands are tied and I can do nothing.' He may be unable to sign it on my MP's behalf but surely he can do so on his own recognisance?! Foiled by the fickle finger of fate! I include below a link to EDM 1155, which shows how many MP's signatures it has and who they are so you can check if your MP has signed yet. On the bright side, there are currently 107 MP's signatures, which is many more than most of the other current EDMs (and in particular the important 'Tea Lights' EDM, which proposes that the government works with manufacturers to make Tea Lights safer. ) Richard Ottaway has signed a good number of other EDMs but my MP Andrew Pelling has signed zero - and he's had ample opportunity in the 2 to 3 years before he 'fell' sick. UK Parliament - Early Day Motions By Details Any suggestions how I can raise the profile of this EDM (since I don't appear to currently be represented in Parliament)? Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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