Soviet lenses on Leica screw bodies

[Neil Purling]

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I have heard of a potential incompatibility issue with using Leitz and Soviet LTM lenses.

such as Industar & Jupiter on Leica III or Elmar on Fed 1.

This is perhaps due to a difference in design specification and shows in inaccurate focus at closer distances when the camera when used with it's native lens is focusing perfectly.

I only have Soviet lenses anyway, so when I get my III serviced it will be set up for these lenses.

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[bill]

I have heard of a potential incompatibility issue with using Leitz and Soviet LTM lenses.

such as Industar & Jupiter on Leica III or Elmar on Fed 1.

This is perhaps due to a difference in design specification and shows in inaccurate focus at closer distances when the camera when used with it's native lens is focusing perfectly.

I only have Soviet lenses anyway, so when I get my III serviced it will be set up for these lenses.

 

 

Hi Neil,

 

My advice would be "don't". For two reasons. Firstly, Leica is all about the glass. Leica screwmount lenses are really not that expensive if you look around, and lens for lens they are noticably superior in performance to the FSU clones. Yes, I have used them - 50 and 85mm - and if properly set up and clean they have their own charms, but there is honestly no comparison. You can also get Canon or Voigtlander lenses cheaply and they are all preferable to the FSU glass.

 

Secondly, if you have your III collimated to work with the FSU lenses (assuming such a thing is possible given the wide variations in FSU lens setup) you may render it unusable with Leica glass. Liken it to setting up your car to run only on crossplies. It may not matter to you in the short to medium term but if you want to sell in the future I think you will struggle.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[redfalo]

I recently posted some test shots comparing a KMZ Industar 50/3.5 from 1958 with a Summitar 50/2.0 from 1951 and the currrent Summicron 50 (IV) on a M8.

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/46292-summarit-50-1951-old-russian-lens.html

[earleygallery]

I can't imagine how anyone could 'set up' your Leica lll to use Russian lenses. Maybe the lenses themselves could be checked/adjusted if there are focus problems, but given their value its probably not worth doing.

 

I have used a Jupiter 8 which was fine, but FWIW I would agree with Bill here - buy yourself a 5cm Elmar and delight in how good a lens it really is.

[peter_n]

I agree with all of these guys. You need to change the lenses to work on the camera. Some of them are worth it, some absolutely not. Most of my stuff is Leica, but I'm lucky enough to have two outstanding FSU lenses, a Jupiter-8 and a Jupiter-11. I've used them on a IIIC and also an M6TTL, and I'm sending them both off for CLAs that will cost a multiple of what they originally cost. But I want to use them on my M7 and MP because they are so good. The J-8 in particular has a really beautiful look.

[Neil Purling]

Do compatibility issues only become quite noticeable when you get to 50mm focal length & longer?. The Fed has its own 50mm lens. I bought a Industar 22 because the diaphragm was adjustable without steel finger nails.

For the Leica I could have a Industar 61 L/D or a Jupiter 8 adjusted to suit. The J8 is faster, but the diaphragm is not click stopped.

What sort of price could I expect to pay for a 50mm of Leitz manufacture? I thought of a Elmar, but there are a lot of forged 50/3.5s of FSU origin and I don't want to get my fingers burnt.

[bill]

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Neil, I understand your concerns, but you can offset the risk by buying from a reputable dealer. For a 5cm Elmar I would personally recommend MW Classic Classic Cameras - Rare and Collectable Photographic Equipment – MWClassic.com Aperture Photographic Aperture Photographic Tel. 020 7242 8681 or Richard Caplan index.html All describe fairly, and none would touch a ringer with a barge pole. Price? As little as £75 for a well-used example, up to £250-ish for a later model "Red Scale". If you hold a 5cm Elmar in one hand and an Industar 22 in the other you will easily tell the difference in quality of construction.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

[doubice]

Neil,

 

I am in full agreement with the above posts - it really does not make sense to adjust a Leica body for the Russian lenses, even if it was possible given the variability in the the ‘Tessarski’ and ‘Sonnarski’ quality control. Contrary to what most Russian sellers of the lenses claim, their designs were not based on the Elmar, but on the pre-WWII Zeiss Tessar and Sonnar designs.

 

Having said that, I must also add that the Russian optics, when properly set up, are great performers considering the pittance one pays for them. I have just sold three 2/50mm Jupiters and prior to the sale tested them on the M8 for focusing accuracy. Guess what - absolutely no issues!

 

I believe the incompatibility issues stem from the difference in the rangefinder cam follower design between Leica and Zorki/FED. While Leica uses a rotating wheel on the cam follower, the Russian cameras use a solid triangular follower which can foul the focusing cams of some Leica lenses.

 

Problems arise when the Leica lens has an in/out sliding focusing cam instead of the simple circular one which turns as you focus the lens. Examples of these ‘problematic’ LTM lenses are the 2/90mm Summicron and all 135mm lenses. When screwing in these lenses, the solid focusing cam of the Leica lens will hit the solid triangular cam follower of the Russian camera and might knock it out of alignment or, you might not be able to thread the lens in at all.

 

All the best,

 

Jan

[Mark Antony]

While the Russian lenses are very good for the money I'd agree that a good coated Elmar would be a sound investment,

They are my 50mm of choice:

The F2,8 on the left is a wonderful lens.

I paid a very reasonable amount for the above, but if you are on a budget don't forget the Canon LTM lenses especially the 50 1,4 and the 35 F2,8 bargains for a screw thread user.

[Neil Purling]

I wouldn't really care if the plating on the brass parts was worn as long as the lens was AOK optically. It would then match the state of the camera body!

I ought to have the Leica fixed and then play with the lenses I have got. If those are unsuitable look at a genuine Leitz 50mm.

[brianv]

I've posted a lot about adjusting FSU lenses to focus properly on a Leica on rangefinderforum. The FSU lenses are all made to the Contax standard, ~52.3mm. The FSU lenses in both Contax/Kiev mount, and 39mm thread mount, are built to that standard. The factory specification sheet that came with three of my J-3's in 39mm thread mount make that point very clear. The Leica standard is 51.6mm. So the lenses will focus behind what the Leica RF indicates.

 

The "trick" is to shim the FSU lenses so that the actual focus and RF agree at ~3m. The DOF even at F1.5 will cover the error at closest focus. At infinity, stop down to at least F2.8. The rear-ward Focus Shift of Sonnar formula lenses works in your favor. Once properly shimmed, a good J-8 or J-3 is a fine performer.

 

Some comparison shots of 50mm F2 lenses can be found on this thread, including my 6 Summicrons and a Summitar:

 

Comparison of 50mm F2 lenses for the Leica: Warning Too Boring For Words. - Rangefinderforum.com

 

and it is very boring!