Running M11 and M10 in parallel: is it big pain?

[Kiwimac]

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I was browsing the second hand listings and one of the dealers has a grade 8 condition M10 Monochrom for sale. 
 

I did have an M10-R briefly, which I liked. However once the M11 settled down, the quality of life improvements got me to sell the 10. 
 

There are zero second hand M11 M cameras with either of the two best NZ dealers right now. 
 

Reviews of the 10M are good. Some suggesting that the images look more analogue than the M11M images but never having owned either I can’t really speak to that. 
 

The 10M is probably NZ$6,000 less than a similar 11M would be. 
 

Of course, we then end up with different batteries, no hybrid shutter, no usb C. Etc. which could make it a pain to travel with. 
 

Operationally they’re similar enough not to be too annoying and I doubt I’d use them side by side anyway. I used to do that with Nikon D3 and 4 - one on each hip, sporting 70-200 f2.8 on one side and 17-35 f2.8 on the other. Can’t see me doing that with M. 
 

Worth considering or wait until the eventual 12M sends all the mint trade ins to the secondary market?

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[Chris W]

I loved my M10 colour, upgraded for an M11, but I kind of miss it. I would jump on an M10 Monochrom if I could afford it.

[Steve Ash]

I own a M11 M and a M10. It is really hard to hold back and not to switch the M10 to a M11. It is not only the higher resolution but also the usb charging, convenience with FOTOS, lighter weight, etc.

 

[Alexander108]

I own an M10-M and an M11. Although I like the usability of the M11 much more (menus, buttons, etc.) the M10 is certainly "good enough" for me. I am still blown away by the image quality of the M10-M. I don't see a reason to replace it with an M11-M. There would be some conveniences but certainly not worth thousands of dollars / euros. 

You'll enjoy the M10-M!

[maxpower]

It's hard to say, the most practical thing that annoys me when switching between the two is how different the menu systems are - and the three buttons next to the display are in a different order too. Battery life is less good so for my M10-P camera I do bring an extra battery, but they are much more compact and don't have the attached bottom plate sticking out, so that's not really a problem for me. 

But if you think you will be wanting the M11M anyway later, I would probably suggest just waiting until time is right - maybe ask preferred dealers if they can give you heads up if a used one appears. 

I also wanted to add make sure you want it in general, I fell for the M10M too and loved it. But I did not use it enough to warrant keeping it. If you are trusted with the dealer you could also just ask to borrow it maybe, I've done that before when I wasn't sure about it.

Edited 9 hours ago by maxpower

[Eoin]

I'm running M10, M10R & M11M. I'm no luddite, but USB Charging, Fotos app and electronic shutter are not functionality I tend to use.

When I was looking for a 2nd hand Monochrome, I happened upon a M11M for very close to the same money as a M10M so I jumped on the M11M.
Perhaps in hindsight a common M10 platform would negate the need for extra M11 batteries and the Visoflex 2 EVF.

But in use, the menus are not too dissimilar, the M11M felt less "dense" both in hand and in shutter action initially, but I've become accustomed to the difference and barely take notice of it.

In processing the files, the only thing I really noticed when comparing M10M to M11M was less noise in the shadow detail upon recovery. But the files were very similar with about 1 to 1.5 stops noise advantage to the M11M

The M11M has been my primary camera for nearly 2 years now, but every time I take my M10R out, it is by far my favourite digital M ever, there is just something about it that I find perfect. I always carry spare batteries regardless and rarely, if ever need to change unless using wifi or EVF extensively on the M10.  

Unfortunately the price difference you quote between M10M and M11M @ NZ$6000 (€3000) is double what I'm seeing here in Europe. My local market is extremely small and such equipment can be reliably sourced in the wider European market, so I can identify fully with your dilemma with such a small NZ market.
In your case, having enjoyed the resolution and extra functionality in your M11P-Safari, the M11M is the logical choice for continuity. But you will notice the difference in density due to top plate materials with the M11M. 

I love the Monochrome M11M & Q2M, I enjoy shooting (and being limited) to that medium. But truth be told, one doesn't need a monochrome, it's a choice.

 

[jaapv]

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35 minutes ago, maxpower said:

It's hard to say, the most practical thing that annoys me when switching between the two is how different the menu systems are - and the three buttons next to the display are in a different order too. Battery life is less good so for my M10-P camera I do bring an extra battery, but they are much more compact and don't have the attached bottom plate sticking out, so that's not really a problem for me. 

But if you think you will be wanting the M11M anyway later, I would probably suggest just waiting until time is right - maybe ask preferred dealers if they can give you heads up if a used one appears. 

I also wanted to add make sure you want it in general, I fell for the M10M too and loved it. But I did not use it enough to warrant keeping it. If you are trusted with the dealer you could also just ask to borrow it maybe, I've done that before when I wasn't sure about it.

I personally prefer the M10 series over the M11. The last true M.

[PeterKelly]

I have an M11 BP and recently swapped my M10M for a used M11M. The swap cost less than $2k

My reasons were as follows:

1) consistency of batteries, grip menus etc.

2) M11 upgrades - sensor, metering, battery life, USB charging etc

3) Used M11M came with a one year warranty- some piece of mind as my previous digital M’s haven’t exactly been bulletproof.

i absolutely love the M11M. The files are great if you take great care with the highlights and process them carefully. My M11 BP has been gathering dust on the shelf since I got the M11M but will be pressed back into action on an upcoming trip to Cuba.

Just my 2 cents worth on the subject.

 

[Steve Ash]

vor 6 Stunden schrieb jaapv:

I personally prefer the M10 series over the M11. The last true M.

You can use the M11 the same way as the M10 if you want. It really is up to you only. Well, but this is drifting away of the topic here anyway. 

[Kiwimac]

Thanks all. 
 

The 11M is the obvious choice although even if I won Lotto, it’s completely out of stock here, even with the Leica distributor. 
 

I’ll enquire about the 10M and get more information. 
 

I’d probably use them as separate things rather than as a team; by that I mean that today might be a black and white day and tomorrow might be a colour day, rather than carrying both all day. That at least somewhat reduces the cognitive dissonance of two slightly different button layouts, menus etc

 I almost cogitated selling the Safari and buying a new 11M but (a) the Safari is so lovely and (b) I’m not sure I could live entirely without colour. 
 

There is a rare set for sale here called the ‘Make Your Mark’ set. It’s a matching gbp M246 Monochrom and 35 Cron. The camera is clad in vegetable tanned Horween leather. Only 80 sets were made and it was only sold in the USA. It is tantamount to unused with the plastic still in place on the base plate. 

[newtoleica]

I love my M10-M. I used it solidly for 18 months, alongside a Q2 for colour. However I missed a colour M and traded the Q for a lightly used M11-D. I didn’t like some things about the 10-D and didn’t want to go back to 24MP. 
the two cameras are fine as I wouldn’t shoot both together, nor travel with both unless I was planning specific ‘street outings’. In use I’m a really basic M user. Never touch settings after set up and hardly use back buttons/screen etc (well… D) I have a half case with a back flap for the Mono so it’s a bit like the D…..

 

[Jeff S]

35 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

I’d probably use them as separate things rather than as a team; by that I mean that today might be a black and white day and tomorrow might be a colour day, rather than carrying both all day. That at least somewhat reduces the cognitive dissonance of two slightly different button layouts, menus etc

 

I never carry a color-based camera with my M10M (or M9M before).  The major benefit of a Monochrom for me is not the files, though they are wonderful; it’s the mindset it promotes by eliminating color distractions and the possibility of shooting color scenes.  It’s similar in that respect to when I shot B&W film. I tend to stick with the Monochrom for more than a day at a time to really get in that groove. The trade off is reduced PP flexibility by negating use of color channels, but the use of colored lens filters adds to the film-like experience.

[rtai]

I had the M10M and now the M11M. Functionally they are the practically the same with the same buttons and menu layout just a few improvements which I don’t use. USB charging is nice because I can carry a power bank instead of a second battery but a second battery would be smaller. That said I have live view black out issues with the M11M even with v2.6 firmware and now just ordered a Sandisk v90 card to see if that helps. In hindsight I could have just switched to the built in memory. Doh! I am getting desperate and annoyed. My M10M was trouble free. In the film days I always travelled with two camera and a second M10 would just be fine. For me a second camera that shoot color would be great. Back in the M9 and M8.2 day both awesome cameras the Monochrom was a revelation because I could get three more stops out of the sensor. Now it doesn’t matter as much. Shoot color and use the sliders. My SL2 can do great monochrome. And the flexibility of a color option by your side is more practical than a second monochrom IMHO.

Edited just now by rtai