Imagine new EV 1 with Nikon’s “green window” manual focus confirmation feature

[BernardC]

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6 minutes ago, frame-it said:

i never did anything, just slapped on different lenses and shot perfectly fine

I always used live view and a magnifier to achieve critical focus back when I shot Canon SLRs. The camera's built-in focus aids got you close, but it was rarely 100% correct.

[AdrianL]

@algrove What I meant is that the focus peaking and enlargement features worked well with autofocus cameras like the SL and Q because they were not central to achieving focus confirmation for an AF EVF. For the EV1, a manual focus camera, to adopt the same EVF was akin to using an AF EVF. 

[satijntje]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb algrove:

Are you 100% sure about this?

A friend who uses his M glass on the Nikon Zf with a dumb adapter and still gets the green square over his focus point on the Zf EVF.

That’s what I thought.
The German Youtubers Krolop & Gerst first presented a video with this AF confirmation with MF lenses.
A few days later they then uploaded a correction of their first video informing the viewers that eye AF confirmation was only possible when there is an electricial connection between the lens and the Zf body:

The 6bit TTa adapter has such a connection.
This was the last Information I had, but who knows, maybe the systems are getting more and more clever 🙂

[carlosgavina]

That is a software limitation from Nikon — basically Nikon only enables focus confirmation on lenses with electronic contacts, and those adapters add them so they bypass this firmware limitation — but technically this technology doesn't need electrical connection from the actual lents to the camera for this to function, it might help having access information like focal length and so forth, but technically its not mandatory. What is happening behind the scenes is just basically this:

The camera is always checking with PDAF, ai shapes recognition and focused areas, independently of what lens is connected, at all times, on each frame. When it detects a shape (eye, face, animal) or a portion of the frame "in focus" it just highlights it.

I was expecting, or wished, something similar on the EV1 to be honest. Even just shape/eye detection would be very useful, so if you would push in to zoom to focus, it would do it automatically on the eye, face etc. 

Leica already has sensors and software that could achieve this with some software tweaks, with the SL3 & SL3-S line.

[AdrianL]

5 hours ago, carlosgavina said:

That is a software limitation from Nikon — basically Nikon only enables focus confirmation on lenses with electronic contacts, and those adapters add them so they bypass this firmware limitation — but technically this technology doesn't need electrical connection from the actual lents to the camera for this to function, it might help having access information like focal length and so forth, but technically its not mandatory. What is happening behind the scenes is just basically this:

The camera is always checking with PDAF, ai shapes recognition and focused areas, independently of what lens is connected, at all times, on each frame. When it detects a shape (eye, face, animal) or a portion of the frame "in focus" it just highlights it.

I was expecting, or wished, something similar on the EV1 to be honest. Even just shape/eye detection would be very useful, so if you would push in to zoom to focus, it would do it automatically on the eye, face etc. 

Leica already has sensors and software that could achieve this with some software tweaks, with the SL3 & SL3-S line.

That is very encouraging. Judging from your technical explanation of what is possible with the existing SL3 image sensor with its on-sensor phase detection, Leica could have envisioned an EVF solution for the M with a proper manual focus confirmation technique that matches or even improves on the focus patch method for the rangefinder. Marketing considerations probably played an ill conceived part in stifling the use of Leica’s own current tech. Such a shame! 

Edited 10 hours ago by AdrianL

[hexx]

Doesn't that assume that it's the same sensor as on SL3/Q3? Someone in other thread mentioned that there are actually 2 versions of this sensor. One with PDAF and one without.

[SrMi]

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1 minute ago, hexx said:

Doesn't that assume that it's the same sensor as on SL3/Q3? Someone in other thread mentioned that there are actually 2 versions of this sensor. One with PDAF and one without.

There are probably other differences than just the PDAF stripes and software required to handle them. Using OSPDAF just for MF confirmation would be huge waste. I guess one could do it without, but additional software would be needed.

[hexx]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

There are probably other differences than just the PDAF stripes and software required to handle them. Using OSPDAF just for MF confirmation would be huge waste. I guess one could do it without, but additional software would be needed.

And if anything, I guess, it's something they could've done (or maybe they will) for the SL as all the HW is there and also a faster processor. 

[SrMi]

Just now, hexx said:

And if anything, I guess, it's something they could've done (or maybe they will) for the SL as all the HW is there and also a faster processor. 

Yes. People love using their M lenses on SL3 with apparently same focus aids as in M-EV1.

[AdrianL]

26 minutes ago, SrMi said:

There are probably other differences than just the PDAF stripes and software required to handle them. Using OSPDAF just for MF confirmation would be huge waste. I guess one could do it without, but additional software would be needed.

It would not be a waste if it provides a better manual focus confirmation method. I hope that the whole idea of integrating an EVF into the M is to address the shortcomings of the rangefinder solution. 

[AdrianL]

25 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Yes. People love using their M lenses on SL3 with apparently same focus aids as in M-EV1.

True but not if they can compare it with the Nikon Zf MF confirmation solution. My point is just that Leica missed a golden opportunity to showcase a modern direction for the M. Otherwise, the current rangefinder works very well for many of us, myself included. 

Edited 9 hours ago by AdrianL

[SrMi]

Just now, AdrianL said:

It would not be a waste if it provides a better manual focus confirmation method. I hope that the whole idea of integrating an EVF into the M is to address the shortcomings of the rangefinder solution. 

The focus aids in M-EV1 are the same as in SL3 and Q3, and everybody seems happy with them.

[carlosgavina]

23 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Yes. People love using their M lenses on SL3 with apparently same focus aids as in M-EV1.

1 minute ago, SrMi said:

The focus aids in M-EV1 are the same as in SL3 and Q3, and everybody seems happy with them.

By all means, I think this iteration of the camera still has its own merits, its smaller and considerably lighter than an SL3 for instance.

I think Leica was a just bit conservative with this first iteration, probably to test out the waters — creating a new M camera based on M parts is technically much easier, and who knows, maybe the SL3 sensor + processor wouldn't even work right out of the box with the limited size, heat dissipation and battery capacity of an M. That there would be constrains for such thing I'm sure.

The camera is fine as it is, it's just a missed opportunity in offering something more. And I do think that something more will come on future versions.

I'm probably getting one either way 🙈

[AdrianL]

3 minutes ago, SrMi said:

The focus aids in M-EV1 are the same as in SL3 and Q3, and everybody seems happy with them.

Those are AF cameras with the addition of MF aids. Is this the best EVF Leica can do for a MF camera? IMHO, I have used focus peaking and enlargement for manual focus, just seems really cumbersome and slow. A complete antithesis of the M experience. The rangefinder focus patch is an elegant solution for the OVF era, is this the best Leica can do?

[AdrianL]

5 minutes ago, carlosgavina said:

By all means, I think this iteration of the camera still has its own merits, its smaller and considerably lighter than an SL3 for instance.

I think Leica was a just bit conservative with this first iteration, probably to test out the waters — creating a new M camera based on M parts is technically much easier, and who knows, maybe the SL3 sensor + processor wouldn't even work right out of the box with the limited size, heat dissipation and battery capacity of an M. That there would be constrains for such thing I'm sure.

The camera is fine as it is, it's just a missed opportunity in offering something more. And I do think that something more will come on future versions.

I'm probably getting one either way 🙈

I hope you will post your experience with your new M EV1. 

[SrMi]

20 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

True but not if they can compare it with the Nikon Zf MF confirmation solution. My point is just that Leica missed a golden opportunity to showcase a modern direction for the M. Otherwise, the current rangefinder works very well for many of us, myself included. 

Which Zf MF confirmation solution are you referring to?

There is a focus indicator (dot) in the shooting display that lights up when the subject is in focus, but the manual says it can light up even when the subject is not in focus. It also says to use magnification for precise focus.

I thought there was another in-focus indicator (don't have my Zf with me), but I may have confused it with Hasselblad's technique.

[AdrianL]

28 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Which Zf MF confirmation solution are you referring to?

There is a focus indicator (dot) in the shooting display that lights up when the subject is in focus, but the manual says it can light up even when the subject is not in focus. It also says to use magnification for precise focus.

I thought there was another in-focus indicator (don't have my Zf with me), but I may have confused it with Hasselblad's technique.

First of all, I want to say that I am learning a lot from everyone posting here. I have very limited experience with other camera manufacturers, as I am primarily a M11M user, but very interested in the EV1. When I came across the Nikon “green window” manual focus confirmation solution, I thought it was very much in line with my current rangefinder experience but in an EVF (potentially even easier to use). That’s what I was referring to. Did you like that feature on your Zf? 

Edited 8 hours ago by AdrianL

[SrMi]

27 minutes ago, AdrianL said:

First of all, I want to say that I am learning a lot from everyone posting here. I have very limited experience with other camera manufacturers, as I am primarily a M11M user, but very interested in the EV1. When I came across the Nikon “green window” manual focus confirmation solution, I thought it was very much in line with my current rangefinder experience but in an EVF (potentially even easier to use). That’s what I was referring to. Did you like that feature on your Zf? 

It's been a while since I used Zf, and I used Z-mount Voigtlander lenses on it. I will need to refresh my experience with it once I am back home.

 

[Robert Ardinger]

The Nikon ZF has a "manual focus subject detection" setting that tells the camera to follow the subject (people, animals, etc.).  This lets manual focus lenses track a specific point (i.e. subject's eye) and with the zoom feature (assignable to a function button) lets the user zoom in on the tracked point to finish focusing.  This video mentions this feature.  It works with manual lenses that have electrical contacts (Voigtlander) and M lenses on a basic M to Z adapter.  The ZF also has the "focus box turning green" ability with the lenses that have electrical contacts.

Edited 7 hours ago by Robert Ardinger

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