Imagine new EV 1 with Nikon’s “green window” manual focus confirmation feature

[AdrianL]

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Leica’s EVF adaptation for the M system is a missed opportunity to address their own reason why an EVF is even considered. Which is to expand the market for more potential Leica M users while acknowledging that it is not a Q with interchangeable lenses. Leica’s EV 1 could have drawn inspiration from the legacy M viewfinder focus patch method by updating the focus confirmation to a modern version similar to Nikon’s “green window" advanced manual focus confirmation feature. In fact, the EVF should also provide an option to turn off all the additional information at the bottom, leaving a clean image with a simple window confirmation feature. That would address M film users. Now, that would be embracing the M legacy and bringing it to contemporary expectations!

Edited Monday at 06:54 PM by AdrianL

[Knorp]

My Pentax K5r (?) had this AF confirmation for manual lenses. It was and still is a great feature ...

Nikon's Zf is in this regard an examplary modern camera: take note Leica !   

Edited Monday at 07:26 PM by Knorp
typo?

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, Knorp said:

My Pentax K5r (?) had this AF confirmation for manual lenses. It was and still is a great feature ...

Nikon's Zf is in this regard an examplary modern camera: take note Leica !   

Canon 5DSR had this in 2015 [small red square]

Leica probably know about everything the other companies are doing, but only do what they want to do

 

Edited Monday at 09:27 PM by frame-it

[AdrianL]

I am sure Leica is aware of all the other technologies out there. Unfortunately, they chose to simply implement an AF EVF for the EV1. We have to admit that there is not a real focusing solution here as we are starting to see from reviews that the highlights do not clearly indicate what is truly in focus. This is so unfortunate for someone like myself who is dedicated to the M system and would like to see a truly modern M but with the soul of its legacy. 

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, frame-it said:

Canon 5DSR had this in 2015

The Leica S2 had it in 2008, and many earlier SLRs had it too. 

Like many aids that were invented in those days, it probably isn't accurate enough for critical focus on a 60MP sensor in 2025. That's not to say it isn't appreciated in some cases...

[frame-it]

2 minutes ago, BernardC said:

it probably isn't accurate enough for critical focus on a 60MP sensor in 2025. That's not to say it isn't appreciated in some cases...

ridiculous, it was perfectly fine on a 51MP 5DSr with heavy Zeiss 100mm makro planar lens, with NO IBIS or OIS.

[Objektivjäger]

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So there are several reasons this was not implemented in this first model.  First we need to recognise that the EV1 is based on the M11 in order to 1. test the market at lower cost/risk than a new build, 2. maintain the M look and heritage, 3. Speed up the development time and 4. not cannibalise M11 sales.

Given that we are stuck with:

1. existing battery capacity

2. Maestro 3 processor

3. Sensor without phase-detect focus points.

Basically this type of focus can't be delivered with these constraints. This is also why there are no "Leica Looks" (additional processor power required) and a slower FPS viewfinder (slower processor, lower power consumption requirements of 60 fps)

Focus peaking is less than optimal on an M also due to the nature of M lenses. Where AF cameras focus at full aperture and then stop down instantly before the shot is taken, this is not an option for M lenses. Thus due to depth of field more is in focus at the shooting aperture, making focus peaking less accurate.

We can hope that Leica is taking all of these factors into consideration for the M12 build so that in 2028 when an EV2 is launched these capabilities and more will be available.

 

[AdrianL]

I agree with your assessment. Aren’t you all disappointed when none of the influencers invited to Italy brought up the key point that the EVF focus solution was sorely lacking? Since you are so versed with Leica technology, do you think that using the SL3 image sensor with on-sensor phase detection will allow for an electronic focus confirmation window (just like the rangefinder focus window)? No additional R&D needed.

Edited yesterday at 05:33 AM by AdrianL

[Knorp]

I'd say it's a missed opportunity to deliver what could have been a truly great 'new' concept.

But I'll follow future iterations with the highest expectations ... 

Edited yesterday at 05:49 AM by Knorp

[Pelu2010]

Hey,

i would be happy with a splitscreen, that shows me one side magnified and the other side at 100, with the option to push in in the magnified side too. 
i shoot a lot at concerts with the m11 and many time the magnifying is all over the place because it can’t be locked and you accidentally pushed the selector. But maybe it’s just me not using this correctly. But after 9 months of everyday shooting I am a little annoyed about this. I would love to see Leica addressing this problem with the next firmware update. 

[SrMi]

1 hour ago, AdrianL said:

I agree with your assessment. Aren’t you all disappointed when none of the influencers invited to Italy brought up the key point that the EVF focus solution was sorely lacking? Since you are so versed with Leica technology, do you think that using the SL3 image sensor with on-sensor phase detection will allow for an electronic focus confirmation window (just like the rangefinder focus window)? No additional R&D needed.

The Leica M1 firmware does not work with the SL3 sensor. Many firmware changes would be needed (hiding PDAF stripes, etc). Adding a new focus confirmation system (never implemented before in a Leica camera) requires significant R&D. Of course, I wish Leica had added better MF support, but for many years, Leica users have been using the Visoflex for framing and focusing. So, it should be OK to work with.

 

[gbpost]

Nikon's manual focus confirmation is most probably patented for Nikon. Even if the technical means were avaliable in the M-EV1, Leica must not implement it as long as the patent holds. They would have to find a solution, which is not covered by intellectually property rights of other companies. 

[SrMi]

22 minutes ago, gbpost said:

Nikon's manual focus confirmation is most probably patented for Nikon. Even if the technical means were avaliable in the M-EV1, Leica must not implement it as long as the patent holds. They would have to find a solution, which is not covered by intellectually property rights of other companies. 

Hasselblad has something similar.

[satijntje]

The Nikon Zf AF confirmation (the green square box) only works if here is an electrical connection between the lens and the Zf body.
This can be achieved by using an M-Z adapter with electrical contacts , e.g. the 6bit TTartisan Adapter.
With other pure mechanical adapters, this AF confirmation will NOT FUNCTION.
As there is no electrical contact between lens and M body apart from the 6bit reading (that is in fact an optical contact) I fear that this wish cannot be fulfilled with a simple software update.
 

[SrMi]

6 minutes ago, satijntje said:

The Nikon Zf AF confirmation (the green square box) only works if here is an electrical connection between the lens and the Zf body.
This can be achieved by using an M-Z adapter with electrical contacts , e.g. the 6bit TTartisan Adapter.
With other pure mechanical adapters, this AF confirmation will NOT FUNCTION.
As there is no electrical contact between lens and M body apart from the 6bit reading (that is in fact an optical contact) I fear that this wish cannot be fulfilled with a simple software update.
 

The fact that it works with 6bit adapter indicates that the system only needs focal length information from the electrical contacts. That can be provided with the coded M lenses.

It could also work without PDAF, as the camera could use CDAF method to estimate the direction, and focus acquisition.

Maybe Leica can add it to the M12 generation firmware.

[frame-it]

16 minutes ago, satijntje said:

As there is no electrical contact between lens and M body apart from the 6bit reading (that is in fact an optical contact) I fear that this wish cannot be fulfilled with a simple software update.

only possible via software by using On-Sensor Depth Analysis Information, e.g. like TrueDepth or DFD [panasonic] so the camera knows where i.e. on which pixels it has current manual focus, but that's basically a much more accurate peaking, and needs a maestro 10 processor not a vintage maestro 3

 

Edited yesterday at 08:14 AM by frame-it

[BernardC]

12 hours ago, frame-it said:

ridiculous, it was perfectly fine on a 51MP 5DSr with heavy Zeiss 100mm makro planar lens, with NO IBIS or OIS.

It worked perfectly, except that you had to calibrate each lens for front/back focus, and even then you got better results with live view and a magnifier on the rear LCD. Keep in mind too that a 100mm lens has a relatively big depth of focus at the image plane (2x more than a 50mm, 4x more than a 25mm lens).

I'm not saying that Leica isn't capable of implementing this type of solution. They did in the S2, and we know that the SL3/Q3 use a PDAF version of the M11's 60MP sensor. My point is that the results might not live up to expectations, especially with lenses at working apertures (stopped-down).

[algrove]

13 hours ago, AdrianL said:

I am sure Leica is aware of all the other technologies out there. Unfortunately, they chose to simply implement an AF EVF for the EV1. We have to admit that there is not a real focusing solution here as we are starting to see from reviews that the highlights do not clearly indicate what is truly in focus. This is so unfortunate for someone like myself who is dedicated to the M system and would like to see a truly modern M but with the soul of its legacy. 

What is an "AF EVF"? There is no auto focus (AF) in an EV1 which I am certain you are aware of.

[algrove]

4 hours ago, satijntje said:

The Nikon Zf AF confirmation (the green square box) only works if here is an electrical connection between the lens and the Zf body.
This can be achieved by using an M-Z adapter with electrical contacts , e.g. the 6bit TTartisan Adapter.
With other pure mechanical adapters, this AF confirmation will NOT FUNCTION.
As there is no electrical contact between lens and M body apart from the 6bit reading (that is in fact an optical contact) I fear that this wish cannot be fulfilled with a simple software update.
 

Are you 100% sure about this?

A friend who uses his M glass on the Nikon Zf with a dumb adapter and still gets the green square over his focus point on the Zf EVF.

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[frame-it]

50 minutes ago, BernardC said:

It worked perfectly, except that you had to calibrate each lens for front/back focus,

i never did anything, just slapped on different lenses and shot perfectly fine