Beginner hurdles in macro world

[TT878]

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Hello everyone,

 

First time posting. New to the forum. New to Leica. Actually, new to photography altogether.

So I have a bit of a dilemma, regarding macro photography on the SL3.

I own the Sigma 105 mm macro. The lens only goes to 1:1 magnification so naturally, I started looking into Laowa lenses that go up to 2:1. Specifically, the 58mm 2:1 and the new 180 1.5:1. While manual focus doesn’t bother me I am very worried about them being not weather sealed and the likelihood of dust getting into the lens. Another concern is the lack of any digital communication with the camera itself. I am confused as to how that lack of communication will affect my photos in post.

Any thoughts or suggestions for new lenses or new methods and approaches is appreciated.

Thank you.

[jaapv]

Weather sealing? Dust? What are you planning to do? Photograph the inside of vacuum cleaners? The majority of lenses in this world is not weather sealed and pose no problem at all and a bit of dust inside does not impair performance. Only after many years will they need a CLA for internal window washing to remove haze.  Weather sealing, as the name implies, is meant to protect the electronics inside modern lenses from moisture to a certain extent. 

As for lens choice, just use the excellent Sigma you have. Learn about things like lighting, focus stacking, etc first. Learn to use your camera, an SL3 is an ambitious and somewhat daunting camera for a beginner.  Learn postprocessing. The physics of the lens have nothing to do with it.
Don't go buying lenses left and right when you have no idea what you want or need. Buy a good ring light first. Much more useful.

Do a few photography workshops for beginners. Plenty of choice here: 

https://store.leica-camera.com/uk/en/programme?p=1 

https://www.pauldavidsmith.co.uk/shop/macro-photography-course/

And many others; the best place to spend your money. 

[TT878]

Hey

thanks for the response, and for the links. The second link seems interesting and reasonably priced. I’m aware of the akademie workshops and have taken a few. 
I am using the sigma 105 and  loving it. I was merely asking about what it’s in the op. Kinda fussy about dust. Just as a general concept
as for the spending left and right- one can only wish! 
thanks again for the links. 

[PhotoCruiser]

I use the Sigma 105mm Macro on my SL2 and consider it as a great lens and a great focal length for critters.
Focal length matters as minimum focus distance can be important depending on what you photograph as a near lens scare live animals and more distance make them less nervous. The only problem of long minimum focus distance happen only in underwater photography where water with particles is between lens and object degrading the photo, but that happens rarely on land, maybe in extreme dusty or foggy environments. The Q2 has a basically good macro function but extreme near focus distance what is also a problem for correct illumination, after extensive tests with my Q2 i dropped that idea and finally got the SL2 and the Sigma 105mm Macro.
For the Laowa i would prefer the 180mm over the 58mm for that reason, but for non moving objects the 58mm should work as well.

I suggest you to start using the 105mm and learn how to use it, different techniques and in particular how to work with artificial illumination to illuminate correctly and use light to isolate the object from the surroundings. 
2x Macro is more tricky to do than 1x and if you get interested you may start with a adapter to raise the magnification factor.

Be informed that you need to test a Adapter before you buy it, the Sigma 105mm does not have a lot of space between the L-Mount and the first lens and the tele converters i have do not work as the converter will hit the internal lens. If you want one then you should investigate well what model does work and has reasonable good optical quality.

Chris

[jaapv]

You can better use a diopter on the Sigma to get beyond 1:1. , like the Canon 500d  , than buying another lens. BTW, A short macro lens like a 58 one will cause you to creep up close, resulting in an unnatural perspective and causing lighting problems. 

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb PhotoCruiser:

if you get interested you may start with a adapter to raise the magnification factor.

The cheapest way is a Chinese Macro Extension Tube from Amazon, JJC has one two piece for L-Mount and claims that autofocus still works.
Extension Tubes have no optics inside so they dont alter optical quality and for this there should be no problem to mount it between the Sl and the Sigma, but never tried it.
I probably should order it to conduct some tests.
EDIT: Just ordered them, if you are patient i will write a review and post some photos.

Chris

Edited 15 hours ago by PhotoCruiser

[jaapv]

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A diopter works better on longer focal lengths, an extension tube on shorter. 

[PhotoCruiser]

Yes, i know, but a high quality diopter is much more expensive than extension tubes.

There are many different diopters and i have some, the Leica ELPro52 and some for underwater use i may could adapt, but all of them where very expensive.
there are also several other brands of diopters but it's kind hit or miss as if they don't fit the lens curvature they create soft/unsharp borders.

Chris

 

Edited 12 hours ago by PhotoCruiser

[PhotoCruiser]

Here is another article from Canon EU regarding the use of close-up lenses aka Diopters and extension tubes.
https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/infobank/close-up-lenses/
https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/infobank/lens-extension-tubes/

They state

Zitat

Close-up lenses have more effect when they are used on a camera lens with a long focal length than on shorter lenses. This is exactly opposite to the effect of extension tubes, where the amount of magnification decreases as the camera lens focal length increases. In practice, this means that extension tubes are more useful with short lenses (up to 100mm, for example) whereas close-up lenses are more useful with longer lenses.

Zitat

If you have a macro lens, you can make good use of a close-up lens to bring about even larger magnifications, although a close-up lens typically loses effectiveness at shorter focal lengths (less than about 35mm). If you're aiming for really high magnifications, try using a macro lens + extension tubes + a close-up lens.

I just ordered also a 62 to 52mm step-down adapter to try what happen mounting the ElPro52 on the Sigma 105mm.
One thing what is most likely sure is that the step-down ring will create a slight vignetting, how much i will discover soon.

Chris

[TT878]

7 minutes ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Here is another article from Canon EU regarding the use of close-up lenses aka Diopters and extension tubes.
https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/infobank/close-up-lenses/
https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/infobank/lens-extension-tubes/

They state

I just ordered also a 62 to 52mm step-down adapter to try what happen mounting the ElPro52 on the Sigma 105mm.
One thing what is most likely sure is that the step-down ring will create a slight vignetting, how much i will discover soon.

Chris

Thanks Chris this is actually quite helpful. 
So, it turns out that when you order from Laowa directly they do not have a return/refund policy even though the item hasn’t shipped yet! Accounting-wise they can just refund the order. They did, however, offer an exchange. 
the initial purchase was for the 90mm 2:1 so based on what I understood from you guys longer focal length is easier to work with so I asked for an exchange with the 180mm 1.5:1. Hanging on to the Sigma 105 for now. 

[jaapv]

1 hour ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Yes, i know, but a high quality diopter is much more expensive than extension tubes.

There are many different diopters and i have some, the Leica ELPro52 and some for underwater use i may could adapt, but all of them where very expensive.
there are also several other brands of diopters but it's kind hit or miss as if they don't fit the lens curvature they create soft/unsharp borders.

Chris

 

I find the Canon500D exceptionally good.

[PhotoCruiser]

vor einer Stunde schrieb TT878:

Hanging on to the Sigma 105 for now. 

That is the best solution to dive in macro photography as the Sigma 105mm is a great alround lens and doing in-depth macro work get quickly expensive.
Once you made some experience you will find out what other lens to buy and/or if diopters or extension tubes will do the trick as well.
As i wrote, it depends on what kind of macro you want to do and where to take thee photos as i find there is a huge difference what lead to realize what gear you need to get the best out of your photos.

What you need in any case is a very good and stable tripod, better one where you can put the camera near the bottom and the correct flash setup.
A ring flash works well but gives some kind of a flat light, i prefer at least one more to set light accents what add depth to the photo and once you know how to use your flash setup then a snoot cap on one/them will add a exceptional touch of "art" to the photos as you can illuminate only very small parts of the scenery/object.
A wireless flash trigger is a great thing to have as you can move normal hot shoe flashes where you need them and not only on top of the camera what gives again a flat and in most cases light from a wrong angle.

If you have space and wan't to learn quickly i suggest to free a unused angle in your house/appt and build a mini macro studio on a old table, that is a good start to learn how to position the flashes for what effect and you don't have to set-up all every time you want to do some macro.

Small objects you already have at home are good objects to start with when it's cold and rainy outside, model railways/cars, artificial flowers, small stuff out of your toolbox, etc, etc. Same for buying some tiny stuff for model railway environments and building some sceneries,  a fun and good and comfortable way to learn to later use the learned knowledge out in the wild.

Chris