WB Fine-Tuning

[Vsisishi68]

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Thanks to the latest firmware update, we can now adjust the WB fine-tuning settings. Yay!

I’m curious to hear what everyone’s doing with this new option  

What in-camera WB fine-tuning adjustments are you using to get a more neutral color rendering, or something closer to the classic “Leica look”?

I’m not looking to change the overall character of the M11 files, just to tone down the magenta bias while keeping that signature Leica warmth and depth.

Would love to hear your experiences and preferred settings!

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[Lev55]

I have the same Question. It would be nice to have a thread with pictures before and after changing the settings to compare our results.

[maxpower]

I followed advise from @don daniel posted here and am happy with the results for me 

 

[Vsisishi68]

@don daniel recommends 15 clicks from magenta towards green and 5 clicks from blue to yellow

[elmars]

vor 52 Minuten schrieb maxpower:

I followed advise from @don daniel posted here and am happy with the results for me 

 

Me too!

[CDodkin]

Someone explain to me how a fixed WB offset control can solve a variable tint offset issue with the M11 (and M EV1)?

[wdahab]

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40 minutes ago, CDodkin said:

Someone explain to me how a fixed WB offset control can solve a variable tint offset issue with the M11 (and M EV1)?

The answer is that most of us have found it’s not a “variable tint” offset issue. While the precise value might have some variation, the average offset is very consistent and exists on every photo I take. Precision vs accuracy. The offset might not be a precise value, but it’s always inaccurate in the same direction.

It’s clearly present when I blast saturation. My photos are overwhelming red. So I drop the magenta until the colors are more neutral and then I revert the saturation. Always gives me a much more natural image.

So I always find I need a consistent reduction in the magenta. The new adjustment will ensure that I’m starting from “close to correct” so that the first step of every edit isn’t “do the same magenta reduction for every single photo just to actually even see the correct version of my image.” The yellow/blue is more subjective, I don’t find it as much of a problem and more a question of whether you like warmer or cooler photos by default.

[Vsisishi68]

@wdahab 

Out of curiosity, what setting did you make ?

[wdahab]

43 minutes ago, Vsisishi68 said:

@wdahab 

Out of curiosity, what setting did you make ?

I'm just blindly following the 15/5 rec up above and seeing how that comes out. Haven't done real testing yet.

 

Edit: okay just futzed a bit. The 15 toward green seems to be a good, helps a lot comparing where my older photos were. The +5 to yellow seems a bit stronger than I like. Not bad, possibly closer to where I'd want, but definitely a "I like warm colors" vs the more vintage "I like blue colors" that I sometimes like. I just switched to +3 yellow to balance that out a bit.

Edited Saturday at 09:04 PM by wdahab

[PeLu]

I have a loaner m11p on its way from Wetzlar. I presume the adjustment would be the same for that since it’s the same sensor?

 

[Kiwimac]

I’m not sure. I’ll try the suggestions here and see what they do. 
 

I never really had a great issue before. I generally set the balance by Kelvin and I presume that wasn’t affected since 5500K is presumably 5500K given that it’s a defined point on an international colour standard. 

[CDodkin]

6 hours ago, wdahab said:

The answer is that most of us have found it’s not a “variable tint” offset issue. While the precise value might have some variation, the average offset is very consistent and exists on every photo I take. Precision vs accuracy. The offset might not be a precise value, but it’s always inaccurate in the same direction.

It’s clearly present when I blast saturation. My photos are overwhelming red. So I drop the magenta until the colors are more neutral and then I revert the saturation. Always gives me a much more natural image.

So I always find I need a consistent reduction in the magenta. The new adjustment will ensure that I’m starting from “close to correct” so that the first step of every edit isn’t “do the same magenta reduction for every single photo just to actually even see the correct version of my image.” The yellow/blue is more subjective, I don’t find it as much of a problem and more a question of whether you like warmer or cooler photos by default.

The M11 (and M EV1) Magenta tint offset is highly variable - depends on light, time of day, latitude. When you actually measure it with a calibrated target the Magenta offset varies, you get a variance up to 10 on the Tint slider in ACR. 

You can't 'fix' that with a fixed Magenta offset in camera - the average offset is not consistent, but I agree that it exists on every photo taken on teh M11, to a lesser or greater degree. That's why you should do in-camera WB with a calibrated transmission target at the start of each shot - and when ever the lighting or location changes.

[SrMi]

2 hours ago, CDodkin said:

The M11 (and M EV1) Magenta tint offset is highly variable - depends on light, time of day, latitude. When you actually measure it with a calibrated target the Magenta offset varies, you get a variance up to 10 on the Tint slider in ACR. 

You can't 'fix' that with a fixed Magenta offset in camera - the average offset is not consistent, but I agree that it exists on every photo taken on teh M11, to a lesser or greater degree. That's why you should do in-camera WB with a calibrated transmission target at the start of each shot - and when ever the lighting or location changes.

Or do it like in film days: use a fixed WB (raw shooting).

[CDodkin]

22 minutes ago, SrMi said:

Or do it like in film days: use a fixed WB (raw shooting).

In-camera WB with a suitable target gets it done - everything else looks too much like guessing 

[SrMi]

3 hours ago, CDodkin said:

In-camera WB with a suitable target gets it done - everything else looks too much like guessing 

It worked for film. For most, 'accurate' WB (and colors) is less desirable than pleasing WB (and colors). The former can be acquired in a slower process (with a target), the latter in the post.

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb SrMi:

Or do it like in film days: use a fixed WB (raw shooting).

Yep!

in most cases i use a fixed white balance and if colours are off i correct that on the computer what is basically the same the camera does internally.
I did many thousands underwater photos where a correct white balance when shooting is almost impossible or awkward slow to do.
Particularly videos wit auto WB set can be a huge pita as color shift when light or depth change what makes correcting colours a long task while, much more simple with a fixed WB value.
Same happen on land when doing landscape or street with a beautiful cloudy sky and light is constantly changing, just much less than underwater.

Doing still or portrait in a studio with a good, repeatable and to photographer know artificial illumination setup things are obviously different

Chris

Edited Sunday at 08:07 AM by PhotoCruiser

[Kiwimac]

8 hours ago, CDodkin said:

 That's why you should do in-camera WB with a calibrated transmission target at the start of each shot - and when ever the lighting or location changes.

How on earth can you realistically do that unless you’re in a studio or otherwise working incredibly slowly for each image?

I can’t see too many documentary or photojournalist users managing to incorporate that into their process. 

[Kiwimac]

6 hours ago, SrMi said:

Or do it like in film days: use a fixed WB (raw shooting).

This is the way!

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[Vsisishi68]

Based on the different answers, I’m starting to wonder if the cameras could have slightly different white balance settings from the factory.

[elmars]

Some people say so. My M11 had the same as the M11p and M11D that I tested. But my M EV1 had less magenta.