PeLu Posted Monday at 04:26 PM Share #1 Posted Monday at 04:26 PM Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi all. My Summitar ends up in a weird position when mounted to Leica IIIc. Its center is at 4-5 a clock when fully seated. Next is that, at close distance, it back focuses fully open. At least several centimeters. Are these two problems related? Is there any adjustment I can do? br Peter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted Monday at 04:26 PM Posted Monday at 04:26 PM Hi PeLu, Take a look here Summitar problems. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jerzy Posted Monday at 06:25 PM Share #2 Posted Monday at 06:25 PM vor 1 Stunde schrieb PeLu: Its center is at 4-5 a clock when fully seated. do you mean that focusing tab, when lens is at infinity, is at 4-5? Maybe you will post a photo for better understanding For focusing problem - is the lens fully locked/arrested? It is possible that both problems have the same source but it needs more clarification Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted Monday at 08:32 PM Author Share #3 Posted Monday at 08:32 PM Oh sorry, I can see I’m very unclear. Will get back with pictures and a better explanation tomorrow! /PL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted Monday at 09:42 PM Share #4 Posted Monday at 09:42 PM 5 hours ago, PeLu said: Hi all. My Summitar ends up in a weird position when mounted to Leica IIIc. Its center is at 4-5 a clock when fully seated. Next is that, at close distance, it back focuses fully open. At least several centimeters. Are these two problems related? Is there any adjustment I can do? br Peter An LTM lens being offset to the left (looking from the back) is perfectly normal, it's because when the photographer is using an accessory in the cold shoe, like a rangefinder or flash, they can quickly peer to the left to see where the lens is set (for DOF) and not all the way over the top of a flash gun etc. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
willeica Posted Tuesday at 12:51 PM Share #5 Posted Tuesday at 12:51 PM 16 hours ago, PeLu said: Oh sorry, I can see I’m very unclear. Will get back with pictures and a better explanation tomorrow! /PL A photo or two will clarify everything. There may be two unrelated issues, but the mid point does not have to be at 12 O’Clock. You also have to be certain about minimum focus distance. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted Tuesday at 05:31 PM Author Share #6 Posted Tuesday at 05:31 PM Ok, Now I have had a nights sleep and calmed down a bit. First thing I did today was to disassemble the front element to clean and grease the aparture ring. Now it works like a charm! One win! Checked focus with my M11 and my first impressions at close distances is that everything seams ok. Shooting against the sun, well not direct in the sun, it flares and gives rather low contrast. No surprise there. But plane of looks like it perfect. However when aiming for a crane in infinity I can’t bring the focus pattern to overlap as it should. I would like to turn focusing past its focusstop. I’ll post one picture but this phenomenon needs to be examined more. Regarding alignment I did a quick and dirty solution! I loosened the mounting ring on the camera and turned it 90 degrees counterclockwise. Now the centerman of the lens ends upp at approx 2 a clock. However I’m not sure why there is a 12 a clock mark on the cameras mounting ring if the lens ”center” wasn’t supposed to be there. Now the mark is at 9 but lens sits nice. So with camera cleaned, lens aparture in working order and film successfully loaded (not easy) I’ll go out and shot a roll tomorrow. Extra question for @willeica: The camera don’t have a K on the shutter. Would that diminish its value much? If everything is in working order I don’t mind some patina. But it would be nice to know that one at least don’t loose to much money if one would sell at some point? Camera and especially lens shows ”obvious signs” of use… Cleaned up quite nice though. The ring for the right ”eye” will be here any day from DAG cameras. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424503-summitar-problems/?do=findComment&comment=5869684'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted Tuesday at 06:25 PM Share #7 Posted Tuesday at 06:25 PM Advertisement (gone after registration) 50 minutes ago, PeLu said: The camera don’t have a K on the shutter. Would that diminish its value much? If everything is in working order I don’t mind some patina. But it would be nice to know that one at least don’t loose to much money if one would sell at some point? The K can get worn. I have a genuine K camera where the K is barely visible on the shutter. Ask at info@leica-camera.com to confirm if it is a genuine K camera. Let us know the results from the roll of film. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted Tuesday at 06:42 PM Author Share #8 Posted Tuesday at 06:42 PM Yes, it’s confirmed by Leica and Mr Lager (who I think is one of the famous Leica gurus) to be a K. Delivered to Berlin -42. It has, according to the daughter of the original owner, been in the family since new. Her father also left lots of boxes full of pictures. Looking at the camera I can understand why she hasn’t got the time to go through them. I will try to look at the shutter again. I have a UV light (that I have used to inspect watches) which might be of some help? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted Tuesday at 06:44 PM Share #9 Posted Tuesday at 06:44 PM position of infinity lock is correct (photo 1), position of distance mark (triangle, photo 2) is correct, as 250swb wrote it is past 12, Photo 3 - lens is not at infinity, it is set for approx 1,6m. Can you move focus tab further clockwise so the the focusing knob will match inifinity lock? If this is not possible when lens is on the camera then remove the lens from the camera and try to move focus tab at infinity position. If it is not possible than the problem is with the lens and it needs to go for repair. If you can set the lens to infinity when not on the camera then the problem is with the camera, rangefinder might be de-adjusted heavily. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! keep us (me) updated Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! keep us (me) updated ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424503-summitar-problems/?do=findComment&comment=5869716'>More sharing options...
PeLu Posted Tuesday at 07:41 PM Author Share #10 Posted Tuesday at 07:41 PM (edited) 57 minutes ago, jerzy said: position of infinity lock is correct (photo 1), position of distance mark (triangle, photo 2) is correct, as 250swb wrote it is past 12, Photo 3 - lens is not at infinity, it is set for approx 1,6m. Can you move focus tab further clockwise so the the focusing knob will match inifinity lock? If this is not possible when lens is on the camera then remove the lens from the camera and try to move focus tab at infinity position. If it is not possible than the problem is with the lens and it needs to go for repair. If you can set the lens to infinity when not on the camera then the problem is with the camera, rangefinder might be de-adjusted heavily. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! keep us (me) updated Thanks. I got the lens to line up correctly after turning the lens mount ring on the camera itself 90 degrees. Edit: Actually! When looking at several other IIIc cameras online all of them had the small mark on the cameras mounting ring at 9 a clock. Apparently I managed, without realizing it, repair the camera to its originalnstate! Problem with infinity was with my M11. I will check again so I wasn’t fooled by the infinity stop. With the IIIc I have adjusted the rangefinder so now everything seam to works fine with that. Edited Tuesday at 07:44 PM by PeLu Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted yesterday at 06:05 AM Share #11 Posted yesterday at 06:05 AM vor 10 Stunden schrieb PeLu: Thanks. I got the lens to line up correctly after turning the lens mount ring on the camera itself 90 degrees. Good. But on the photo that you posted in#6 this ring is in the correct position, so at this moment camera was repaired, I assume. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Whatever, this solves the problem with lining up but has no relevance to the second problem, back focusing that you mentioned. So unless that lens was not fully extracted and locked when you noticed this problem there is still a problem and this could be both: lens or camera. Lens might be assembled incorrectly or shims under ring could be missing Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Whatever, this solves the problem with lining up but has no relevance to the second problem, back focusing that you mentioned. So unless that lens was not fully extracted and locked when you noticed this problem there is still a problem and this could be both: lens or camera. Lens might be assembled incorrectly or shims under ring could be missing ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424503-summitar-problems/?do=findComment&comment=5869825'>More sharing options...
250swb Posted yesterday at 07:14 AM Share #12 Posted yesterday at 07:14 AM And without being entirely sure the the lens is being operated correctly or is within it's tolerances you fall into the big no-no of Leica bodies and lenses, you should NEVER EVER adjust the rangefinder to a match an individual lens at least unless you already know that lens is perfect. The logic being that if you make the body work with that one lens it won't then work with other lenses. If de-valuing the camera is a concern you are doing it, listen to what Jerzy is saying. If you have an M11 and it works with other M lenses it will be adjusted correctly, so use an adapter to mount your Summitar on the M11 and test it against a brick wall, play with it, take some pictures with it, and if you can't get infinity or it is front or back focusing it is highly likely it's the lens that's the problem and you shouldn't be adjusting the body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted yesterday at 12:00 PM Author Share #13 Posted yesterday at 12:00 PM 5 hours ago, jerzy said: Good. But on the photo that you posted in#6 this ring is in the correct position, so at this moment camera was repaired, I assume. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Whatever, this solves the problem with lining up but has no relevance to the second problem, back focusing that you mentioned. So unless that lens was not fully extracted and locked when you noticed this problem there is still a problem and this could be both: lens or camera. Lens might be assembled incorrectly or shims under ring could be missing 4 hours ago, 250swb said: And without being entirely sure the the lens is being operated correctly or is within it's tolerances you fall into the big no-no of Leica bodies and lenses, you should NEVER EVER adjust the rangefinder to a match an individual lens at least unless you already know that lens is perfect. The logic being that if you make the body work with that one lens it won't then work with other lenses. If de-valuing the camera is a concern you are doing it, listen to what Jerzy is saying. If you have an M11 and it works with other M lenses it will be adjusted correctly, so use an adapter to mount your Summitar on the M11 and test it against a brick wall, play with it, take some pictures with it, and if you can't get infinity or it is front or back focusing it is highly likely it's the lens that's the problem and you shouldn't be adjusting the body. This forum is truly superb! Lots of engagement and obviously knowable people. Thanks all for your efforts guiding a newbie! Regarding the marking on the mounting ring on the camera I have seen a lot of IIIc bodies, actually most of the pictures google found, with this mark at 9 a clock. That led me to believe it was supposed to be that way but maybe there are several people who have used this ”hack”. It worked excellent. Regarding rangefinder adjustment and back focus. What I did with the IIIc is that I put the lens in infinity and then adjusted the range finder path so the matched vertical and horisontal. Today I shot a roll of Ektar 100 which I just processed. Scanning tomorrow will show any shutter problems or any problems with focus accuracy. I will let you know. The miss-focus was discovered on my M11. However I might have done som mistake with the extension of the lens because yesterday it seamed to be ok. I´ll try again! br PL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeLu Posted yesterday at 03:58 PM Author Share #14 Posted yesterday at 03:58 PM Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First roll rushed through the camera. There is obviously a lot of holes in the shutter curtains. Maybe an expensive fix? I'll check tomorrow. This is a scan of one of the pictures that where "less" effected. Full frame has a lot of jpeg compression, the cropped one "size 12" Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First roll rushed through the camera. There is obviously a lot of holes in the shutter curtains. Maybe an expensive fix? I'll check tomorrow. This is a scan of one of the pictures that where "less" effected. Full frame has a lot of jpeg compression, the cropped one "size 12" ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/424503-summitar-problems/?do=findComment&comment=5870079'>More sharing options...
willeica Posted yesterday at 04:35 PM Share #15 Posted yesterday at 04:35 PM 25 minutes ago, PeLu said: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! First roll rushed through the camera. There is obviously a lot of holes in the shutter curtains. Maybe an expensive fix? I'll check tomorrow. This is a scan of one of the pictures that where "less" effected. Full frame has a lot of jpeg compression, the cropped one "size 12" There are rather a lot of pinholes and a replacement shutter seems to be required. For minor pinholes black fabric paint, such as Deco Textil, works well. You seem to have a nice Summitar which is working well. The swirl wide open is similar to that of the earlier 5cm f2 Summar, see example below. I usually find the Summitar to be less swirly than your one, but I love what you have shown. William Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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