Now that a Leica S3 is about £ 7000.00 second hand, would you still upgrade to that rather than the SL3?

[Nick Guttridge]

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Hi Everyone, 

I already own the S 007 (37mp) which I love using in the studio with CS lenses to photograph dancers. 

You can see my work here. https://www.nickguttridge.com/london-dance-photographer

However, may commercial work is architectural and interiors photography. For exteriors I mainly use medium format (Leaf Credo) with Rodenstock lenses. If I need to work more quickly, I use 35mm with a Leica SL2 (S). I originally bought this camera for video, I shouldn't be using it for stills, but it comes in handy.

When I'm shooting interiors, my preference is medium format (Leaf Credo), but if I'm shooting commercial interiors I often shoot with the Leica SL2 (S) as it's quicker and has better ISO performance. Especially if I'm including people. 

I've just been asked to shoot for an important new client. They are used to using a photographer who uses Sony 60mp. They like his workflow, where he shoots with Camranger to an iPad. So the client can see the image quickly. 

I can do something similar with my Leica SL (2). I can also shoot multi shot if there are no people in the image or anything moving to 100mp. I'm not really used to shooting with Leica's remote software on an iPad. I normally shoot tethered to Capture One on a laptop. I guess I can use their Capture Pilot to an iPad too. 

Overall, I'm not sure if the client will notice the resolution. It's more about workflow. 

But I'm tempted to upgrade to the SL3. Although for the money, I could almost buy an S3 second hand in very good condition. For my personal work I would like the extra resolution of the S3. 

Perhaps I shouldn't buy anything at tall. S3 prices will keep on reducing, especially if an S4 is released in 2025/26. 

I can probably get by with my SL2 (S) for commercial work and can in some interiors use the S2 007. I don't always need shift. 

Is this a good time to upgrade to the SL3, or perhaps wait. Get by, the cameras I have are certainly good enough already really?

Thanks

 

Nick Guttridge

 

 

 

 

 

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[Filip Baraka]

Lots to distill here, and you are the only one who can have a final answer. What is a bit difficult to determine is what is the Leica gear that you have currently. You mention Leica SL2 (S), then later Leica SL (2)? 

Secondhand like new condition SL3 now goes around €5k. You can probably get the new one for the same amount if you will have a business write-off. As I understand, remote tethering and wireless sync of photos from SL3 is largely improved over SL2, but somebody with real life experience can chime in.

I would also strongly consider the Leica SL2 if you already don't have one. Still great, and with multi shot still a largest mpix from Leica, second hand like new €2-2.5k

Waiting for some potential release from Leica and looking into the crystal ball is not something I would base my business on.

[Pieter12]

The S3 is the entry drug. You will need lenses—all excellent—and all expensive.

[ynp]

23 minutes ago, Pieter12 said:

The S3 is the entry drug. You will need lenses—all excellent—and all expensive.

The OP has already got the poison . And have the CS lenses. 

Hi Everyone, 

I already own the S 007 (37mp) which I love using in the studio with CS lenses to photograph dancers. 

[Pieter12]

50 minutes ago, ynp said:

The OP has already got the poison . And have the CS lenses. 

Hi Everyone, 

I already own the S 007 (37mp) which I love using in the studio with CS lenses to photograph dancers. 

Missed that. But he is posing the question for others who do not already have the system.

[Einst_Stein]

Seeing your photos. Marvelous!

Higher resolution with work flow you are already mastering well? I guess only you can answer your question. 

[Stef63]

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You did not tell what lenses you already have.  The need to add lenses besides a SL3 or an S3 for this new assignment could also be a deciding factor.  The excellent S lenses are a relative bargain today and quality wise very close to the APO Summicron-L lenses. For interior work the Super-Elmar-S 24 mm is hard to beat on an S3.  And like @Einst_Stein says :  given the fact that you already master the 007 …

[Pieter12]

16 minutes ago, Stef63 said:

You did not tell what lenses you already have.  The need to add lenses besides a SL3 or an S3 for this new assignment could also be a deciding factor.  The excellent S lenses are a relative bargain today and quality wise very close to the APO Summicron-L lenses. For interior work the Super-Elmar-S 24 mm is hard to beat on an S3.  And like @Einst_Stein says :  given the fact that you already master the 007 …

Just make sure any lenses you acquire have had the AF motor upgrade, or you have the upgrade done in a timely manner. Some can no longer be replaced, so there is a fair chance that at some point the upgrade will no longer be available.

[Stuart Richardson]

Your experience may be different, but I don't think you will find the S3 to be all that substantially better in resolution than the S007. It has higher resolution, but also a bit of an unpleasant character to the pixel level detail (at least to my taste...it always felt a bit unnatural to me). I went from the S006 to the S3 and then to the SL2 (47mp version), and the SL2 is the one with the most natural looking, sharpest images. This is due to the sharper APO Summicron lenses, but also the quality and natural character of the 100% detail at low ISO. The detail of the SL2S at 100% is similar, so just imagine that, but with twice the resolution. I think the jump from 24mp to 47mp in the SL2 is larger than the jump from 37 to 64mp in the S cameras. Honestly, I never liked S3, despite ten years loving the S2 and S006. But one area where it would be ahead of the SL2 is highlight retention. I did not like the character of pushed shadows, but the highlight retention is great. I also did not like the stock color, but the Cobalt Imaging profiles improved that greatly. I think Capture One would too.

If you want to have a camera that tethers more easily and has the snap of the Sony, the SL3 is an obvious choose as it is the most recent body with the most modern tethering and it shares the 60mp sensor with the Sony. As much as I loved the S system, I think the lens quality and selection is higher in the SL (if you stick to the APO Summicrons and the best available lenses otherwise). Given the price of the SL2, that is another option as it is similar to the SL2S, just a lot more detail. If you use multishot, it is still the highest resolution Leica ever made. Another added bonus is that you would not need to change your workflow at all, as the cameras are identical in feel, settings and menus. They are a great pair. With the price you save you could get the 21mm APO Summicron which will blow away practically any other 21mm lens you might care to put on a camera.

Edited September 3 by Stuart Richardson

[Pieter12]

3 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Your experience may be different, but I don't think you will find the S3 to be all that substantially better in resolution than the S007. It has higher resolution, but also a bit of an unpleasant character to the pixel level detail (at least to my taste...it always felt a bit unnatural to me). I went from the S006 to the S3 and then to the SL2 (47mp version), and the SL2 is the one with the most natural looking, sharpest images. This is due to the sharper APO Summicron lenses, but also the quality and natural character of the 100% detail at low ISO. The detail of the SL2S at 100% is similar, so just imagine that, but with twice the resolution. I found the S3 detail to be a bit unnatural looking. Honestly, I really never liked the camera, despite ten years loving the S2 and S006. If you want to have a camera that tethers more easily and has the snap of the Sony, the SL3 is an obvious choose as it is the most recent body with the most modern tethering and it shares the 60mp sensor with the Sony. As much as I loved the S system, I think the lens quality and selection is higher in the SL (if you stick to the APO Summicrons and the best available lenses otherwise). Given the price of the SL2, that is another option as it is similar to the SL2S, just a lot more detail. If you use multishot, it is still the highest resolution Leica ever made. Another added bonus is that you would not need to change your workflow at all, as the cameras are identical in feel, settings and menus. They are a great pair. With the price you save you could get the 21mm APO Summicron which will blow away practically any other 21mm lens you might care to put on a camera.

As long as you are willing to give up an optical viewfinder...

[Stuart Richardson]

13 minutes ago, Pieter12 said:

As long as you are willing to give up an optical viewfinder...

It seems like he already has, since he uses the SL2S...I guess my thought is that keeping the S007 and getting an SL2 retains much of what the S system can provide, while also adds the capability of the SL2 and the high potential resolution and lens flexibility. Given the low price of both on the used market, they give a lot of bang for the buck. The S3 really adds very very little to the S007. It exchanges a bit of DR for a bit more resolution, and a sensor which, in my experience at least, had a lot more banding and artifacts. I definitely would not buy one for 7000 pounds. I felt lucky when I finally sold mine...it took almost a year and I think I only got 8000 dollars after commission, and that was back in 2023 or so. No one bought it when I tried to sell it privately.

Edited September 3 by Stuart Richardson

[Jeff S]

The SL2 still has its fans.  I enjoy mine, although strictly for personal work.  Prints are what matters for me, and of course total workflow is key from shot to print display.  There are myriad variables beyond the camera choice.

 

[Nick Guttridge]

15 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

The S3 is the entry drug. You will need lenses—all excellent—and all expensive.

I have four, all CS lenses. Bought during covid from a rental company who never hired them out. At the time the Leica wasn't compatible with Capture One. So professionals just weren't interested. I bought them for £ 2k each. Like new. I even had them serviced for free through the rental company with Leica for new autofocus motors. So I have the drug!

[Nick Guttridge]

16 hours ago, Filip Baraka said:

Lots to distill here, and you are the only one who can have a final answer. What is a bit difficult to determine is what is the Leica gear that you have currently. You mention Leica SL2 (S), then later Leica SL (2)? 

Secondhand like new condition SL3 now goes around €5k. You can probably get the new one for the same amount if you will have a business write-off. As I understand, remote tethering and wireless sync of photos from SL3 is largely improved over SL2, but somebody with real life experience can chime in.

I would also strongly consider the Leica SL2 if you already don't have one. Still great, and with multi shot still a largest mpix from Leica, second hand like new €2-2.5k

Waiting for some potential release from Leica and looking into the crystal ball is not something I would base my business on.

Thanks, I have the SL2 (S) already, and use the multi shot option. But only works as an electronic shutter. So if I'm using flash not really an option. However I use alot of LED light so that's my workaround. I'm not so interested in a mirrorless S4. I like the SLR S 007 I have. The batteries last all day. It's a workhorse. I'm definitely in love with the S system still and would rate it above the SL3. It's just that I can't put a shift lens on it which sometimes would be really nice to do. I've already decided, I'm going to wait for the S3 second hand prices to come down alittle bit more. I'm in a good place with my SL2 (S) and S 007. It's good enough for now. Thanks for your comment. Helped me settle down and make my decision.

[Nick Guttridge]

14 hours ago, Pieter12 said:

Missed that. But he is posing the question for others who do not already have the system.

Well for both me and others, as second hand prices for the S system are getting better. Surely photographers have noticed and would prefer that than the SL3? The lenses are much cheaper now also.

[Nick Guttridge]

14 hours ago, Einst_Stein said:

Seeing your photos. Marvelous!

Higher resolution with work flow you are already mastering well? I guess only you can answer your question. 

Thanks, I aim to sell more fine art prints so resolution is a factor. But frankly the S 007 isn't so bad at 37mp. When you actually look at the extra size up, 64mp doesn't actually get you that much larger print. Like it's not massively larger. Perhaps the colour will be marginally better, especially in skin tones. Although I am not so concerned as I will be shooting B/W mostly.

[Nick Guttridge]

13 hours ago, Stef63 said:

You did not tell what lenses you already have.  The need to add lenses besides a SL3 or an S3 for this new assignment could also be a deciding factor.  The excellent S lenses are a relative bargain today and quality wise very close to the APO Summicron-L lenses. For interior work the Super-Elmar-S 24 mm is hard to beat on an S3.  And like @Einst_Stein says :  given the fact that you already master the 007 …

I have the 14-24 for the SL2 (S), also a canon Shift lens, 24mm. I then use an adapter to put my S lenses on the SL2 (2). So I have the 35, 70, 120, 180.

I think I have decided to wait abit and buy an S3 which I'm confident I will be happier with. The SL3 is eventually come to me, but for now. I like the S3 more. Just wish I could put a shift lens on it for commercial work.

[Nick Guttridge]

12 hours ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Your experience may be different, but I don't think you will find the S3 to be all that substantially better in resolution than the S007. It has higher resolution, but also a bit of an unpleasant character to the pixel level detail (at least to my taste...it always felt a bit unnatural to me). I went from the S006 to the S3 and then to the SL2 (47mp version), and the SL2 is the one with the most natural looking, sharpest images. This is due to the sharper APO Summicron lenses, but also the quality and natural character of the 100% detail at low ISO. The detail of the SL2S at 100% is similar, so just imagine that, but with twice the resolution. I think the jump from 24mp to 47mp in the SL2 is larger than the jump from 37 to 64mp in the S cameras. Honestly, I never liked S3, despite ten years loving the S2 and S006. But one area where it would be ahead of the SL2 is highlight retention. I did not like the character of pushed shadows, but the highlight retention is great. I also did not like the stock color, but the Cobalt Imaging profiles improved that greatly. I think Capture One would too.

If you want to have a camera that tethers more easily and has the snap of the Sony, the SL3 is an obvious choose as it is the most recent body with the most modern tethering and it shares the 60mp sensor with the Sony. As much as I loved the S system, I think the lens quality and selection is higher in the SL (if you stick to the APO Summicrons and the best available lenses otherwise). Given the price of the SL2, that is another option as it is similar to the SL2S, just a lot more detail. If you use multishot, it is still the highest resolution Leica ever made. Another added bonus is that you would not need to change your workflow at all, as the cameras are identical in feel, settings and menus. They are a great pair. With the price you save you could get the 21mm APO Summicron which will blow away practically any other 21mm lens you might care to put on a camera.

Wonderful advice, thank you. I had completely forgotten about the higher resolution of the SL2. That camera could be the best option for me. For the price, the difference in resolution between it and the SL3 isn't really that much. 

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[Stef63]

5 minutes ago, Nick Guttridge said:

I think I have decided to wait abit and buy an S3 which I'm confident I will be happier with. The SL3 is eventually come to me, but for now. I like the S3 more. Just wish I could put a shift lens on it for commercial work.

If you only need shift (and no tilt) then the Mamiya 645 50 mm f/4 Shift (via the S-Adapter M645) might be an option. 

[John McMaster]

Nowhere near the quality/looks of an S lens...

john