Leica Summilux 35mm FLE II 11726/11727

[Leon Berg]

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Dear all,

 

I haven’t found any reports about the new version of the FLE and I am now trying to collect some recommendations  and personal experiences with this particular lens.

I am more of a 50 shooter but have the chance to exchange the new 50 and 35 as a bundle with something I own. 
Who doesn’t love a fast 35, but I need to understand if it’s worth the cost. It would be cheaper than retail for me, but still a lot of value (regarding the item I trade in for it).

Looking forward to your view.

Leon

Edited August 1 by Leon Berg

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[SudaliuS]

Hi Leon.
As an owner of FLE II I can say that it is a great lens. Sometimes I want to sell it because of its weight and dimensions, but when I look at photos from it, I change my mind) At the moment, this is the best 35mm lens for the Leica-M system. Of course, there are compromises like Summicron and others, but this is the best.
Just be careful if you decide to buy. Beware of any lens released in 2022, because they had problems with the aperture blades.

Edited August 1 by SudaliuS

[Leon Berg]

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts.

Do the broken aperture blades also affect the 50mm Summilux 50mm 11728 by any chance? 

I have the chance to buy the newest versions of the FLE Asph. Summilux as a bundle for a very good deal. 

Is the weight so bothersome to you, that you leave the camera at home? 

I mean, the silver chrome Summilux 11892 is 460g, thats definitely too much for me for a leica lens, I prefer the lighter ones.. everything below 400 is fine with me. 

After all the compact measurements are more important to me than weight.. but I get your statement. When we think Leica, we usually think "king of bokeh" and a 600g body. Small, compact, relatively light weight.. 

 

So do I hear a "I would by it again" from you?  The version of the 35mm is from 2024, the 50 is from 2023. 

I also have a Summaron and Rigid for my M3, that I regularly use on my M10, they are my vintage Setup, that I like a lot. 

I had the Summicron 35mm Asph. 11673 which is definitely a nice lens and reasonably priced on the used market, but I didn't quite like it. It was definitely nice, 
but lacked the "blew me away"-factor

[Jeff S]

You might find this comparison between the recent 35 Summilux ASPH and the far more expensive 35 APO Summicron, which is highly regarded by many.

I find, however, that only personal experience with gear can help assess all the relevant variables, including handling, controls, ergonomics, and IQ using one’s own shooting style and editing/output workflow.  

FWIW, I sold my 35 “FLE” v.1, and kept my long time owned 35 Summicron ASPH v.1, which serves my needs well.  So obviously, people differ.

[patrickcolpron]

5 hours ago, Leon Berg said:

I haven’t found any reports about the new version of the FLE and I am now trying to collect some recommendations  and personal experiences with this particular lens.

Hi Leon,

There is a lot of info online about the 35 FLE II if you care to look, mostly biased honeymoon phase with a new lens video and write ups and also from people who have spent a lot of money on it and need to self justify the acquisition cost.

It is not a bad lens.

The FLE one or two, previous or current version, are not the best 35 mm lenses in the Leica line up, it is a very good lens but wouldn't want it as I have no need for close focusing and the FLE version one as a slightly less busy "bokeh" 

It is versatile and fast yet unless you constantly shoot at f/1.4 there are other options out there.

Those who have it swear by it, I compared it for myself with the previous FLE, the rendering of the FLE II is not as good as the FLE I, Leica had to move the aperture blades forward in the new version yo accommodate the close focusing mechanism and it affects the rendering. The FLE I is not the best either but not bad specially for black and white photography. 
 

Anyhoo, all of this said, if one wants a modern 35 mm Leica lens, it is still the lens I do recommend yet you are more of a 50 mil shooter - I'd keep the new 50 and forget about the 35 FLE, if you can have both - go for it, in a trade, not worth it. 
 

But what do I know? 
 

I'd keep the new 50 and look for a 35 Cron V4 to complement it. That is what I know and would do. 

[Leon Berg]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb Jeff S:

You might find this comparison between the recent 35 Summilux ASPH and the far more expensive 35 APO Summicron, which is highly regarded by many...

Thanks for this! I know the Youtuber and like his channel, didn't come across his comparison though! Will check that out, thanks!

 

vor 49 Minuten schrieb patrickcolpron:

Hi Leon,

There is a lot of info online about the 35 FLE II if you care to look, mostly biased honeymoon phase with a new lens video and write ups and also from people who have spent a lot of money on it and need to self justify the acquisition cost.

It is not a bad lens.

.....

But what do I know? 

 

I'd keep the new 50 and look for a 35 Cron V4 to complement it. That is what I know and would do. 

Love this forum, thank you

Gotta admit your post is somewhat irritating and not what I wanted to hear, but it was important to hear! 

Hmm.. Look.. the 35mm FLE version I is currently in my hands, I borrowed it from a friend and like it very much. I know for sure, that I want a Summilux 35mm, it has to have a 1.4 aperture and it has to be "usable" wide open. 
I owned and loved (but had to sell a couple of years ago) a Pre-Asph. from 1990, which was small, dreamy/glowy at 1.4 as you all know, has only 1m MFD, which can be annoying indoors with family members (otherwise I would now consider to get the Steel Rim). The open aperture of those two lenses are definitely usable to me, but not everyone would consider this to be the case. 

The FLE I that I have right now is very nice in every regard, the weight of course is a bit on the heavier side but I like it more than the Summilux that I had. 

Very interesting fact about the aperture blades that have changed their positions and which affects the rendering!

The circumstances are following: 

I own a collectors item (not a camera/lens) that someone on ebay saw who happens to be owner of a leica shop. We can make a deal/swap for the two lenses, or just the 50 plus cash. 
The deal would be to give him whats now mine plus a little bit of cash and get both lenses or get the 50 and receive cash. 

I could then use the 35 for a while and if I don't like it, swap it again for something different from the "Leica universe..", which seems a common practice.

I could also receive the cash and get the old FLE for much less, which doesn't have the closer MFD, but would cost me less. 

 

What's your shot on this? 

[Rupert Greenwell]

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I owned the first FLE but sold it due to it’s loose aperture ring, the lens was returned to Leica for adjustment but soon reverted back to loose again.

I decided to buy the FLE11 having read that the aperture ring design had been improved. My first impression of the lens was that it was quite heavy , I wasn’t very keen on the twist out lens hood.  The close focusing was something that I didn’t really need or use . 
    The good news was that the aperture ring was perfect and the focusing action was smooth . However the lens showed a distinct vignetting between F2.8 and F 5.6.  Wide open it was fine and there was no problem with sharpness. I sent the lens back. The dealer offered me a replacement but I turned it down. I realised that even when working correctly the lens was not for me.

Instead  I asked the dealer for a new 35mm F1.4 Steel rim Reissue. This lens costs quite a bit less than the FLE.  My first impressions was that the lens was much lighter and more compact. Unfortunately  every image I made was out of focus at every aperture ! I tried the lens on another M body and no difference. So that lens went back to a very apologetic dealer . They sent me another Steel Rim and luckily the focus is fine.

I have used this lens a lot now and I really like it. I am glad that my FLE was faulty otherwise I would not have bought the Steel Rim.

I also own the 35mm V 4 which I like very much but it can flare quite badly when you shoot into the light. The Steel Rim is much more controlled without losing character.

There are now quite a few choices in both 50mm and 35 mm. Good luck with your decision !

 

 

[patrickcolpron]

33 minutes ago, Leon Berg said:

Thanks for this! I know the Youtuber and like his channel, didn't come across his comparison though! Will check that out, thanks!

I could then use the 35 for a while and if I don't like it, swap it again for something different from the "Leica universe..", which seems a common practice.

I could also receive the cash and get the old FLE for much less, which doesn't have the closer MFD, but would cost me less. 

 

What's your shot on this? 

No YouTuber made an in depth real world comparaison, that was me and my experience with both the FLE one and two. I was just pointing out the fact that there are reviews on the FLE II 

Honestly the difference in rendering between the FLE one and two is marginal, the previous version has a slightly better rendering - I see it, not everyone does, but it is there.

I like version two of the FLE for it's integrated hood, I prefer version one because I don't use the screw on lens hood and it has a smaller girth which makes it more of a pleasure to use on an M camera. 
 

Same reason I always preferred the 24 Lux over the 28 Lux, smaller girth lenses balance better in my hands over wider lenses if that makes sense.

Get the version II FLE, scratch that itch, it never goes away until you do. 

 

[Leon Berg]

vor 3 Minuten schrieb patrickcolpron:

No YouTuber made an in depth real world comparaison, that was me and my experience with both the FLE one and two. I was just pointing out the fact that there are reviews on the FLE II 

Honestly the difference in rendering between the FLE one and two is marginal, the previous version has a slightly better rendering - I see it, not everyone does, but it is there.

I like version two of the FLE for it's integrated hood, I prefer version one because I don't use the screw on lens hood and it has a smaller girth which makes it more of a pleasure to use on an M camera. 
 

Same reason I always preferred the 24 Lux over the 28 Lux, smaller girth lenses balance better in my hands over wider lenses if that makes sense.

Get the version II FLE, scratch that itch, it never goes away until you do. 

 

Some Yogis teach exactly that, to withstand the itch

Ok, well, what exactly is the difference in rendering, if I may ask? 

vor 26 Minuten schrieb Rupert Greenwell:

I owned the first FLE but sold it due to it’s loose aperture ring, the lens was returned to Leica for adjustment but soon reverted back to loose again.

I decided to buy the FLE11 having read that the aperture ring design had been improved. My first impression of the lens was that it was quite heavy , I wasn’t very keen on the twist out lens hood.  The close focusing was something that I didn’t really need or use . 
    The good news was that the aperture ring was perfect and the focusing action was smooth . However the lens showed a distinct vignetting between F2.8 and F 5.6.  Wide open it was fine and there was no problem with sharpness. I sent the lens back. The dealer offered me a replacement but I turned it down. I realised that even when working correctly the lens was not for me.

Instead  I asked the dealer for a new 35mm F1.4 Steel rim Reissue. This lens costs quite a bit less than the FLE.  My first impressions was that the lens was much lighter and more compact. Unfortunately  every image I made was out of focus at every aperture ! I tried the lens on another M body and no difference. So that lens went back to a very apologetic dealer . They sent me another Steel Rim and luckily the focus is fine.

I have used this lens a lot now and I really like it. I am glad that my FLE was faulty otherwise I would not have bought the Steel Rim.

I also own the 35mm V 4 which I like very much but it can flare quite badly when you shoot into the light. The Steel Rim is much more controlled without losing character.

There are now quite a few choices in both 50mm and 35 mm. Good luck with your decision !

 

 

Hmm.. returning wouldn't be an option. The lenses are new in essence, but I wouldn't have the chance to return them, because it's a private deal. 

The lenses are basically new, you can see it from the condition, the serial number and box. 

These horror stories confuse me even more to be honest.. why are new Leica lenses so expensive but reports of faulty copies are all over the place.. thats a different topic I guess..

 

Anyhow.. I will take my camera, my computer and shoout the lenses and make some comparisons. Anyone a idea how to do that? 

I would test both lenses closeup, mid range, at infinity with apertures from 1.4 up to 11 and see how they perform on my computer and once I am happy with that we make the deal.
I wouldn't have the official Leica warranty, it would be a purchase agreement between to private people. 

[patrickcolpron]

17 minutes ago, Leon Berg said:

Some Yogis teach exactly that, to withstand the itch

Ok, well, what exactly is the difference in rendering, if I may ask? 

I am not a Yogi or a Guru, being a bad influence is one of the many public services I freely provide 😉 

The rendering of the V2 FLE is slightly harsher and busier compared to the V1. 

[Leon Berg]

vor 2 Minuten schrieb patrickcolpron:

I am not a Yogi or a Guru, being a bad influence is one of the many public services I freely provide 😉 

The rendering of the V2 FLE is slightly harsher and busier compared to the V1. 

You mean in the bokeh region? 

[RMF]

I’ve owned the FLE1 and currently have an FLE2. This has nothing to do with the rendering comparisons but if I could have my way I’d revert back to the FLE1 as to me lens haptics play a most important role; I find that the FLE2’s close focus ‘bump’ annoying and often gets in the way, especially when are focusing around the .7meter mark, the integrated hood I thought I’d prefer for its compactness but I found it’s not as rugged as the FLE2 (which can take a beating), the body diameter of the FLE2 is larger and feels quite bulkier to me…beyond what the measured numbers convey. Hope this helps and at least provides a different perspective.

 

 

 

.

Edited August 1 by RMF

[trisberg]

Don’t overlook the Voigtländer Nokton 35mm f1.5. I find it sharper than the Summicron 35mm and it is a lot smaller and lighter than any of the Summilux 35mm versions. It has a pleasant bokeh IMO, and although some online review complain about a mid frame dip, I haven’t noticed it and it wouldn’t bother me even if I did.

-Thomas

 

[rcusick]

1 hour ago, RMF said:

I’ve owned the FLE1 and currently have an FLE2. This has nothing to do with the rendering comparisons but if I could have my way I’d revert back to the FLE1 as to me lens haptics play a most important role; I find that the FLE2’s close focus ‘bump’ annoying and often gets in the way, especially when are focusing around the .7meter mark, the integrated hood I thought I’d prefer for its compactness but I found it’s not as rugged as the FLE2 (which can take a beating), the body diameter of the FLE2 is larger and feels quite bulkier to me…beyond what the measured numbers convey. Hope this helps and at least provides a different perspective.

 

 

 

.

I thought the same thing and bought a NIB v1.  

[patrickcolpron]

2 hours ago, Leon Berg said:

You mean in the bokeh region? 

Correct, and since you mentioned wanting to use it wide open, that should count for something. The difference in rendering between V1 and V2 isn't huge but it is there. 

[Leon Berg]

Why oh why - and I am not trying to start a principle debate here - is Leica 6 times as expensive (when thinking about retail prices) but is accompanied by

so much headache to begin with.. It strikes me as odd to pay the price for a lens that in the end doesn't deliver more image quality, joy and piece of mind.. 
and if needing to be serviced can cost you a good 5-10 percent of the retail price every now and then.. 

what about the faulty copies from Zeiss or Voigtländer? I used the brands for my DSLR and never had any issues. 

With Leica on the other hand I witnessed problems with my own items.. but who can help.. we want the name, we want the heritage, we want the prestige.. and so do I and

there is nothing to deny or to sugarcoat about it. I grew up close to the factory, maybe that's why.

But all these feverish thoughts aside, let me ask you guys straight: is it stupid to get that lens right now for a good 15-20 percent below retail (but without real warranty, 

the seller promised me to send it in for me though, if there's ever a problem with it, which I hope will never occur! 

[don daniel]

vor 58 Minuten schrieb Leon Berg:

But all these feverish thoughts aside, let me ask you guys straight: is it stupid to get that lens right now for a good 15-20 percent below retail (but without real warranty, 

the seller promised me to send it in for me though, if there's ever a problem with it, which I hope will never occur! 

You could call that stupid. I'd rather call it naive.

[Jeff S]

4 hours ago, Leon Berg said:

You mean in the bokeh region? 

Keep in mind that the increased number of aperture blades has no benefit when shooting wide open, as they are fully retracted.  And v1 and v2 lenses are reported to have the same optical formulas.

Personally, as an RF-only M shooter, I find the close focus feature in new M lenses more of a negative than a positive, adding unnecessary mechanical and operational complexity and expense. I would have preferred a simpler 35 Summicron APO, without close focus ability, and reduced cost. My SL 24-90 can focus closer, and is more functional with IBIS and OIS. YMMV.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[didier]

12 hours ago, Leon Berg said:

You mean in the bokeh region? 

I’ll take the risk to add some complexity to your choice : the FLE has a rather nervous bokeh in my view (for example if the background is foliage, or with other highlights.

The APO 35 has a much smoother bokeh.

[Leon Berg]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb didier:

I’ll take the risk to add some complexity to your choice : the FLE has a rather nervous bokeh in my view (for example if the background is foliage, or with other highlights.

The APO 35 has a much smoother bokeh.

Hello Didier, 

the Apo is not an option and not in the budget right now. I don't know if I would consider it, because I want a 1.4. But the Apo is tempting, that I admit!

To the starting situation:

I have a collectors item that I advertised in the internet, which a dealer discovered and offered me to exchange it with two of his lenses of his, that I was looking for anyways,
the Summilux 50 and 35.

I could also only get the 50 and receive cash to equal the exchange item. That was the starting point of our conversation.

I don't have to take the 35mm FLE II, which he has, but after I used the 35mm FLE Mark I, which a friend lend me and which is still with my right now, I got hooked to own a 35mm 1.4.
I once owned the Pre-Asph. 35mm 1.4 11870, which I loved, but had to sell and which I don't consider again because of the MFD. I want to be able to get closer to my child and like to have a more "usable" 1.4. - If money was not an issue, I would have many, many more lenses..
I just don't know if the FLE II is worth the money. I would get it below retail, the deal seems to be good. BUT, it seems this is a flop compared to other Leica successes and people generally aren't a big fan of this lens. Of course with Leica everybody seems to be more pedantic, because the lenses are so much more expensive than the competitors options. 
Also, what bugs me, is the fact, that I would not have an official warranty and have to trust that the seller would send the lens in for me in case of a problem, which seems to be common with Leica lenses nowadays. 
Luxury problems...