R Summicron 50

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Hello all. New member here, but longtime photographer. I have some R Summicron 50 question I hop you can help with.

Can anyone that has experience with this lens or its history help me understand the different versions?

I know there is a version 1 (no hood) and a version 2 (built in hood) and the optical formula change between them. But were there any changes within those two versions? Sub versions maybe? Coatings or such?

What I am predominately trying to understand is which version will have the chance to perform better wide open. I will be using it for portrait work and some up close focusing with a helicoid adapter. I will mostly be using it wide open or close to it.

On that note, I know V1 has a bit of a ninja star aperture effect at f2.8. Does V2 have this as well?

Anything you can share about the versions, histories, or even good images with them wide open will be appreciated. Thanks.

(Also, as an aside, I have read that the R Summilux 50 does not perform that well wide open. Is this true?)

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[erl]

Can't help you with the 50mm versions, but for portraiture I will highly recommend the 80mm R  Summilux. Wide open or stopped down, it is great for portraiture, and a whole lot more. But that probably involves your bank Manager. 🤑 

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39 minutes ago, erl said:

Can't help you with the 50mm versions, but for portraiture I will highly recommend the 80mm R  Summilux. Wide open or stopped down, it is great for portraiture, and a whole lot more. But that probably involves your bank Manager. 🤑 

Lol. Thanks for that. I am trying to stay in a budget but I also shoot basically everything with a 50 to 55.

[a.noctilux]

First question to the OP, on which camera this lens will be used.

I ask because this lens is very nice but old style, version I that I never use is different concept than the II.

It may not be suitable for digital use, I tried on Sony 36Mpix and that was not a success, wide open.

 

I use happily with film on my R and Leicaflex SL (in this case wide open ...) and the lens is quite good wide open.

Anyway, the resolution is enough for most films I use, no complaint.

Maybe you can see in Wiki

tech data in pdf : again from Wiki

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7 hours ago, a.noctilux said:

First question to the OP, on which camera this lens will be used.

I ask because this lens is very nice but old style, version I that I never use is different concept than the II.

It may not be suitable for digital use, I tried on Sony 36Mpix and that was not a success, wide open.

 

I use happily with film on my R and Leicaflex SL (in this case wide open ...) and the lens is quite good wide open.

Anyway, the resolution is enough for most films I use, no complaint.

Maybe you can see in Wiki

tech data in pdf : again from Wiki

This will be used primarily on a Lumix S1R and also a Lumix S1. Interesting that the older version might not perform well on digital. Hmmm.

Can  you tell me if version 2 has the ninja star aperture at 2.8?

[masjah]

Welcome to the Forum.

I've got the latest (ROM) version 2. If I understand this "ninja star" terminology correctly, it refers to the shape of the intersection between two aperture blades, and whether or not there is a bit of a step in the appearance at the "corner". [For example, my 280/4 R ROM exhibits this quite visibly at some apertures (and this is normal for this lens).] 

There is indeed a very slight similar step on my 50/2 visible at 2.8 (and also only just visible at 2.4 if you look through the lens at an angle). I've read that this (allegedly) has some sort of effect on the nature of the bokeh. I've never had the slightest interest in investigating this. It's a nice lens which renders as one would expect a mid-range classic double Gauss design. If you like that focal length for portraits it might suit very well, as it's not as clinically ruthless in its rendering as some later designs such as the 90/2 Apo Asph Summicron. I've had reasonably good results using the appropriate Elpro for macro work, though of course it's completely outclassed in this role by the 100/2.8 (with or without dedicated Elpro) which I now use.

Hope this helps!

[SJCoates]

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I have the Summicron 50mm (V2) and have always been very happy with the results. It is an excellent lens. I don't have first-hand experience with any other R 50mm lens, however going by what I have learnt about the previous lens, this version is a bit better than the first; which is quite normal for Leica. They don't just bring out new versions of lenses for the sake of it. They only replace a lens that already exists in the line up if it significantly improves optically. The version I have is the lens that came out in 1976 and remained in the catalogue until the demise of the R system.

Regarding the f/1.4 Summilux, they did redesign this lens in the late-90s and was seen as a top performer; so again this will have been a step up from the previous model.

Edited 9 hours ago by SJCoates

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43 minutes ago, masjah said:

Welcome to the Forum.

I've got the latest (ROM) version 2. If I understand this "ninja star" terminology correctly, it refers to the shape of the intersection between two aperture blades, and whether or not there is a bit of a step in the appearance at the "corner". [For example, my 280/4 R ROM exhibits this quite visibly at some apertures (and this is normal for this lens).] 

There is indeed a very slight similar step on my 50/2 visible at 2.8 (and also only just visible at 2.4 if you look through the lens at an angle). I've read that this (allegedly) has some sort of effect on the nature of the bokeh. I've never had the slightest interest in investigating this. It's a nice lens which renders as one would expect a mid-range classic double Gauss design. If you like that focal length for portraits it might suit very well, as it's not as clinically ruthless in its rendering as some later designs such as the 90/2 Apo Asph Summicron. I've had reasonably good results using the appropriate Elpro for macro work, though of course it's completely outclassed in this role by the 100/2.8 (with or without dedicated Elpro) which I now use.

Hope this helps!

It does help, thank you. You pretty much described the issue I am talking about. As for how it effects the bokeh it basically changes any pin point light sources in the backgroud from a round bokeh ball to one that exhibits the ninja star shape of the blades at that aperture. It can be HIGHLY distracting, especially when many light sources are present in the background. I actually think the look more resembles a saw blade than a ninja star, but that is what the internet is calling it. I shoot wide open are very close to it much of the time so this is a concern I have about getting the lens. I think I may have talked myself into a Voigtlander Apo Lanthar 50/2 instead anyway. But I have always wanted to explore the R line.

I really appreciate the info. Thanks again.

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44 minutes ago, SJCoates said:

I have the Summicron 50mm (V2) and have always been very happy with the results. It is an excellent lens. I don't have first-hand experience with any other R 50mm lens, however going by what I have learnt about the previous lens, this version is a bit better than the first; which is quite normal for Leica. They don't just bring out new versions of lenses for the sake of it. They only replace a lens that already exists in the line up if it significantly improves optically. The version I have is the lens that came out in 1976 and remained in the catalogue until the demise of the R system.

Regarding the f/1.4 Summilux, they did redesign this lens in the late-90s and was seen as a top performer; so again this will have been a step up from the previous model.

This is all good to know, thanks. I have been digging a bit on the R Summilux 50 but search engines seem dumber today. I keep mostly getting results for the M Summilux so I am having trouble actually studying up on the lens. I think the keepers of the search are relying a little too much on AI.

[TomB_tx]

I have both v1 & 2 50 Summcron R lenses. Bought the v1 in 1969 with my LeicaflexSL, and the V2 many years later with an R4. Both are very nice lenses and I've use both wide open quite often. The v1 optics are similar to the v3 M Summicron, and the v2 R is similar layout to the V4-5 M Summicron. 

Leitz was known to update coatings without announcement or model change, just as normal process improvements, but the v2 is visibly different in appearance, if not in results. Early on I found the v1 to be quite subject to veiling flare shooting into strong light sources. I quickly learned to avoid lighting that caused it. I think the v2 images have a bit more brilliance, but both are very pleasing. All 50 Summicrons (maybe except the APO - never had one) can have central veiling flare.

I'm not as concerned with the other characteristics you mention - having grown old with the lenses of the 50s-70s I never had complaints with them.