50mm Summilux-M ASPH V1 barrel wobble - help?

[suff3li]

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My 50mm Lux ASPH (11892) is currently in Wetzlar to be serviced and Leica customer care refuses to fix it because according to them it is "in tolerance" and cannot be improved.

Wobble is pretty obvious and while carrying around the camera and taking photos, it makes a constant clunking noise. By barrel wobble I mean the front half of the lens having play in relation to the rear part. The lens is under warranty and this play/wobble/clunk appeared after the last repair attempt by Leica CC, which was front focus. Focus got fixed, but this issue was introduced.

Has anyone here had theirs fixed for this issue by Leica CC? I found some old forum posts from around 2010 and multiple people had this same issue based on their description and had it fixed. Also a video from a Reddit user who had the same issue. Mine is definitely more obvious and more audible. Unfortunately I did not take a video of mine before shipping it, stupid of me.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3010474

https://www.reddit.com/r/Leica/comments/1azj8wu/reupload_loose_leica_summilux_50mm_f14/

I'm getting pretty desperate and tired of debating over email with Leica CC. I have also reached out to a few 3rd party Leica technicians.

Similar experiences? Suggestions? Help?

[lct]

My 11891 black anodized copy had some play in the helicoid together with a stiff focus ring a dozen years ago. My dealer had to send it twice to Wetzlar to fix it but it works perfectly since then. My advice FWIW insist to have the lens repaired if it is still under warranty.

[FrozenInTime]

Ask Leica to compare the focus action and wobble both when the lens is pointed at the horizon and when pointed vertically; the issue will be obvious when it is horizontal as the combination of helicoid wear and packing of lubricating grease then fails to support the heavy front lens group assembly.

The issue is unfortunately endemic to the design of the v1; the helicoid is mechanically overstressed ( the 2023 redesign of the lens is significantly wider ).

After years of wobble Leica, at my cost, changed the helicoid on my lens, but the issue then became stiff focus and stiction of the FLE mechanism.

There were reports that DAG could do a better job than Leica through skilled application of different weights of grease.

[FrozenInTime]

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[suff3li]

4 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Ask Leica to compare the focus action and wobble both when the lens is pointed at the horizon and when pointed vertically; the issue will be obvious when it is horizontal as the combination of helicoid wear and packing of lubricating grease then fails to support the heavy front lens group assembly.

The issue is unfortunately endemic to the design of the v1; the helicoid is mechanically overstressed ( the 2023 redesign of the lens is significantly wider ).

After years of wobble Leica, at my cost, changed the helicoid on my lens, but the issue then became stiff focus and stiction of the FLE mechanism.

There were reports that DAG could do a better job than Leica through skilled application of different weights of grease.

Thank you for the tip about the testing horizontally vs vertically. I noticed this as well myself, but I forgot to mention it to Leica.

They offered to replace the lens with the newer close focus model. However, I don't want to play the 50mm Summilux ASPH lottery again. I played it 2023 when I was looking to buy one. I had two of the V2 lenses and one black V1, all of them defective and the V2s were exceptionally bad. The current one is the 4th copy and it was the most okay one, but I still had to send it back to be serviced because it was front focusing.

My lens has seen light use and is only a few years old, so I doubt a worn helicoid is the culprit here. It is possible that the grease might be though? During the last 4 months the lens has gone to service for: droplets inside the lens -> cleaned and sent back -> front focusing after cleaning -> focus fixed, barrel wobble. If they disassembled the helicoids during the focus re-calibration and lubed it differently, could that cause it?

My initial thought was DAG as well, but I would be shipping from Finland and it looks to be a bureaucratic hell. I think DAG would be the last resort due to this.

 

11 hours ago, lct said:

My 11891 black anodized copy had some play in the helicoid together with a stiff focus ring a dozen years ago. My dealer had to send it twice to Wetzlar to fix it but it works perfectly since then. My advice FWIW insist to have the lens repaired if it is still under warranty.

I am still trying to debate over email and argue with them, we'll see how this turns out. I registered the lens when I got it and that gave me an extra year on the warranty, it is still covered.

[FrozenInTime]

1 hour ago, suff3li said:

They offered to replace the lens with the newer close focus model. However, I don't want to play the 50mm Summilux ASPH lottery again. I played it 2023 when I was looking to buy one. I had two of the V2 lenses and one black V1, all of them defective and the V2s were exceptionally bad. The current one is the 4th copy and it was the most okay one, but I still had to send it back to be serviced because it was front focusing.

I too remain wary of even the FLE CF ( by v2 do you mean the 11728 CF or the 11688 E43 black chrome lens ? ) and bought a 11714 reissue non aspherical lens; the wide open performance seems just as good to a 15mm radius, the falls off very rapidly - more so than the ASPH versions. However the 11714 is all brass and focus smooth, and has no floating mechanism to worry about, so it may be a good option for a swap.

[lct]

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1 hour ago, suff3li said:

[...] I am still trying to debate over email and argue with them, we'll see how this turns out. I registered the lens when I got it and that gave me an extra year on the warranty, it is still covered.

I would not send the lens to anybody else than Leica if you are at risk to void the warranty.

[suff3li]

22 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

I too remain wary of even the FLE CF ( by v2 do you mean the 11728 CF or the 11688 E43 black chrome lens ? ) and bought a 11714 reissue non aspherical lens; the wide open performance seems just as good to a 15mm radius, the falls off very rapidly - more so than the ASPH versions. However the 11714 is all brass and focus smooth, and has no floating mechanism to worry about, so it may be a good option for a swap.

Ah, true, I should have been a bit more specific. With V2 I mean the FLE CF, 11728 & 11729.

I've been tinkering with the idea of a V2 or V3 pre-asph Summilux. Also considered the 11714 reissue, but decided against it as it seemed to render very different, more modern compared to the earlier pre-asph versions. Now the reissue is a contender, could be a good compromise to replace the ASPH. I need to dig in and research it more. The only thing I'm wondering about it with my history of the 50mm Summilux lottery is the QC as it is a new model. Thanks for the tip!

 

3 minutes ago, lct said:

I would not send the lens to anybody else than Leica if you are at risk to void the warranty.

I expect it will be void after that. Here is how i see it - If they refuse to fix it, what is the point of the warranty anyway?  

[lct]

24 minutes ago, suff3li said:

[...] I expect it will be void after that. Here is how i see it - If they refuse to fix it, what is the point of the warranty anyway?  

Not a question to ask a retired lawyer but yours has certainly the answer.

[suff3li]

A small update on this saga..

Leica had another attempt at fixing the lens and they managed to fix the barrel wobble.

And of course they also managed to introduce another issue. Now it has play on the focusing mechanism. I think this lens is cursed. 

[lct]

I wouldn't worry too much about that. I had to try twice to get my Summilux 50/1.4 asph v1 repaired by Wetzlar a dozen years ago. Did cost me around €700 for the following work:
• Refurbishment of the helical focus ramp, elimination of play, cleaning of the ramp.
• Replacement of the helical ramp grease with a more fluid grease.
• Correction of the focus offset for M digital cameras.
• Disassembly of the diaphragm, cleaning of the blades.
• General adjustment.

[suff3li]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one dealing with their not-so-good repairs, but it is also very sad to hear.

For the wobble issue they gathered up a group of experts and after an intense discussion they decided to have another attempt at fixing it. Afterwards they were confident that now it is perfect. Well at least they fixed the wobble, but overall it is not what I would call perfect. I doubt that they will have another go at this anymore. I suspect the play has something to do with the grease or the way it is applied as I can hear a "greasy" sound when going back and forth with the focus with small adjustments.

At this point with my experience with Leica and their customer service I'm considering forfeiting and selling all my gear and be done with them.

Maybe if the lens was out of warranty and I had to pay for their work they would do a better job? 🤷🏻‍♂️

Without profanities, this pretty much describes how I'm feeling right now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QY7nSgNrNwc

[lct]

I would firmly insist if you are under warranty. A registered letter sent to both your dealer and Wetzlar should do it normally, otherwise a lawyer's letter should calm those people down.

Edited July 27 by lct

[suff3li]

After 7 months and 6 or 7 (I lost count) trips to Wetzlar this saga has come to an end.

I ended up getting a refund and I have sold all of my Leica M gear. During my 20 years of photography Leica is the only brand that I have had issues with.