Tele elmarit 135 f4 issue

[howes hound]

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My old-but-perfect tele elmarit 135 f4 M has suddenly developed an annoying issue. The collar that holds the business part of the lens in the focusing mount, identified as 1 in the attached photo has become loose because the three grub screws, one of which is identified as 2 in the photo need tightening. They are designed to intrude into a groove on the collar to hold it securely. Consequently the collar, and therefore the lens itself, rotates and wobbles in the mount. Problem is, I can't get at the screws to secure the collar. What you see in the photo is the most I can expose them by rotating the focusing mount. I've tried taking out every other screw in the mount put nothing will allow me to extend the focusing tube enough to expose those three problem screws. Has anyone met this problem and found a solution? Please don't suggest glueing the collar in place, this lens is in very fine original condition for its age and a good performer, I'd like to keep it that way.

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[lct]

You mean Tele-Elmar i guess. The screws ara almost totally hidden on my 1971 copy so there's nothing i can suggest but to have your lens repaired by Leica or a good workshop. Other colleagues here can help better than i do hopefully.

[howes hound]

Tele-Elmar, I stand corrected. If this was an issue with the optics I wouldn't begin to try to resolve it myself. But it's a simple mechanical problem, the kind I've met repeatedly in nearly 60 years of Leica usage going back to 111F, M2, reloadable cassettes and Pradolux projector days. If I could get at the screws, a  quarter or half turn of each and the problem is fixed.

[lct]

The least difference in mechanical length can produce focus inaccuracy on 135mm lenses, to the point that optical cells and focus mounts were calibrated individually. Elmar 135/4 here. Same for the Tele-Elmar 135/4. My copy is a 135.5mm lens as well.

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Edited June 29 by lct

[howes hound]

That's exactly my problem. The optical unit screws into that collar and once the collar became loose focusing became hit-and-miss. I normally use a Vario-Elmar 80-200 on an SL for animal and bird shots but to save weight on a trip and carrying an M camera as well as the SL, the trip not being one targetting bird photography in particular, I thought I'd make do with the Tele Elmar. I very impressed with the ability of that lens to produce very acceptable heavily cropped photos of birds on this trip, until it suddenly developed the wobble. The collar has become so loose now that it was easy to remove it and I can see that where the securing screws mesh with the groove, there's just enough wear to allow play. The bevelled piece that obscures the screws is there just for cosmetic purposes. I was hoping it could be removed, or else the mount could be somehow turned beyond the near-focus stop to expose the securing screws. There has to be a simple solution that doesn't threaten to jeopardize the mount's integrity. Had this happened 30 years ago there would bave been enough people around who know and use the lens, somebody would have met and resolved the problem. As time goes by, we're thinning out.

[lct]

Focus accuracy is more critical nowadays with 60mp sensors. I would not do the DIY butchering i used to do in my film days anymore but to each his own... 😎

[howes hound]

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Fixed it. All it needed was an hour's time and two screwdrivers. The key was finding the focus limit stop - the biggest screw in the whole mechanism, removing it to allow a one-eighth turn past minimum distance, and those three problem screws were accessible. Surprisingly it took nearly a full turn of each to secure the collar effectively. So why did this happen in the first place?

Poor design. The whole optical unit screws into this collar, which allows for easy removal and cleaning of the front and rear elements. So far so good. But the collar is of thin metal attached to the rest of the mounting by those three problem screws and secured only by friction. When you replace the optical unit after cleaning you must hold the collar firmly as you snug the thread. If you hold the body instead of the collar, tightening the thread means you’re putting pressure on those three screws which will quickly wear into the collar’s flimsy metal and cause excessive play. A far better design would have had the screws held by a female thread in the collar rather than secured by friction alone.

It’s not the first time I’ve encountered this kind of problem with Leica equipment. Superb optics, solid build but some slapdash finishing.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

Funny, I couldn't get to those screws if I tried, just barely showing on my Tele-Elmar, not enough to get a screw drive in. I did have the lens CLAd a couple of years ago, it was less than $100. 

[howes hound]

Not sure what CLAd means but if you still have it (of if anyone else is interested) and need to get at those screws I can give you a step-by-step. There's nothing technical about the fix, you're not going anywhere near the optics and all you need is a small, flat-head screwdriver. The lens itself is well-worth hanging onto, and excellent performer on either the M or SL bodies.

[adan]

"CLA'ed" is standard camera-technician-speak for "Cleaned, Lubricated and Adjusted."

 

[howes hound]

Thanks adan. I'm amazed. If I could get a lens cleaned, lubed and adjusted for under $100 I wouldn't have taken this on in the first place. The asking price for the most menial and unskilled task I'm quoted these days is $250, minimum, sometimes that's the ask just for an estimate, and if you end up with a bill under $500 you're thankful. That's not for technical work involving expertise. Can't recall what I paid to have the shutter on an M4 adjusted but it was a long way north of $200 and that was 23 years ago. I've parked two M lenses because they need work but now I'm curious, maybe I should go get a quote from our local camera whizzes.

[tommonego@gmail.com]

On the 135 and my 90 Elmarit both were around $100 for a cleaning, with the Elmarit a hair was removed between interior lenses, that I always assumed was a scratch. My 35 Summilux was a different story, $200 and the lens wasn't put back together correctly by the first tech, took me about 6 months to figure out what was wrong, took another $350 to fix that. The first tech wouldn't accept he blew it, so $550 to get the lens back in order. The 135 and the 90 (especially) were much better after they came back from the 1st tech. So he made a mistake with the 35, I knew something was wrong but couldn't analyze it on my M3 or M8, I had to put it on my CL to find it wasn't focusing to infinity, then the tech admitted he didn't have a collimator to test the lens. But it had been 6 months so any warranty had expired.