New: Leica Vario-Elmarit-SL 28–70 f/2.8 ASPH.

[Jeff S]

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6 minutes ago, jacopastorius said:

thanks. I already checked those videos but they are not a truly and detailed review of the lens. Just a first "hands on"

Well, the first one goes on for 2 hours, the second one demonstrates the real life weather sealing benefits of the Leica compared to the Sigma, etc. All cover handling, IQ, and all the basic stuff reviewers discuss. Most all modern lenses are good enough these days for quality pics/prints in the right hands. The rest comes down to individual preferences that demand personal experience IMO. For detailed performance, handling, ergonomics, etc I’ll rent or buy and decide for myself, which is the only way for me to satisfactorily evaluate gear.  YMMV.

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[Simone_DF]

17 hours ago, jacopastorius said:

thanks. I already checked those videos but they are not a truly and detailed review of the lens. Just a first "hands on"

Just search for reviews of the Sigma. It’s the same lens with a different case.

[BernardC]

4 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Just search for reviews of the Sigma. It’s the same lens with a different case.

It may or may not be, based on previous Sigma-manufactured lenses. The only thing we can be reasonably sure of is that it will be at least as good as the Sigma, and likely better. That's not a bad thing, the Sigma 28-70 seems to be very good.

[Jeff S]

6 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Just search for reviews of the Sigma. It’s the same lens with a different case.

And the case apparently matters. In one of the reviews I linked, his Leica version withstood continuous rains, while his Sigma 28-70 lens fogged up twice and he ended up replacing it.

Edited July 5 by Jeff S

[Simone_DF]

2 hours ago, BernardC said:

it will be at least as good as the Sigma, and unlikely better.

Fixed that for you.

[Jeff S]

43 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

Fixed that for you.

Better weather sealing, at a minimum.

[Simone_DF]

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1 hour ago, Jeff S said:

Better weather sealing, at a minimum.

The counterpart is more weight, 3x the price, worse customer service if things go wrong, 2 years of warranty vs 3 of the Sigma (in Europe) and a material that gets scratched more easily than polycarbonate, it's hotter in summer and colder in winter, so to me the Sigma is better for these reasons. Nothing wrong if people prefer to buy the Leica, but I really struggle to see the advantage of that, except for cosmetic reasons or if weather sealing is important, but it's not to me. 

[SrMi]

3 minutes ago, Simone_DF said:

The counterpart is more weight, 3x the price, worse customer service if things go wrong, 2 years of warranty vs 3 of the Sigma (in Europe) and a material that gets scratched more easily than polycarbonate, it's hotter in summer and colder in winter, so to me the Sigma is better for these reasons. Nothing wrong if people prefer to buy the Leica, but I really struggle to see the advantage of that, except for cosmetic reasons or if weather sealing is important, but it's not to me. 

MSRPs are $989 vs. $ 1,890, not $ 3,000 (3x).

As with cameras, I take better images with lenses that I enjoy more. I enjoy using Leica zooms more than the Sigma ones (e.g., 24-70).

[Simone_DF]

5 minutes ago, SrMi said:

MSRPs are $989 vs. $ 1,890, not $ 3,000 (3x).

In Europe you can find the Sigma very easily for 650 to 750€, brand new, from official resellers, vs 1850€ of the Leica.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

The counterpart is more weight, 3x the price, worse customer service if things go wrong, 2 years of warranty vs 3 of the Sigma (in Europe) and a material that gets scratched more easily than polycarbonate, it's hotter in summer and colder in winter, so to me the Sigma is better for these reasons. Nothing wrong if people prefer to buy the Leica, but I really struggle to see the advantage of that, except for cosmetic reasons or if weather sealing is important, but it's not to me. 

To each his/her own.  I haven’t needed to have a Leica lens repaired under warranty since first using their systems in the 80’s. And because they are robust (no scratches for me), and hold value, I’ll be trading a decades old, infrequently used, 28 M Summicron for the SL28-70 and actually getting money back.  I mainly grip the body, not the lens, and have never had issues with hot or cold lenses. I find they balance well on equally robust bodies. Even the SL 24-90, my workhorse (which has no Sigma counterpart) is fine, although the 28-70 will be light and tiny by comparison.  Plus it will be weather sealed, which is important for me.  I also prefer the minimalistic design compared to the Sigma; no MF/AF button required, as I can seamlessly move from one to the other on my SL2 without having to use a switch.

But nothing wrong if people prefer to buy the Sigma. 😉

[Simone_DF]

16 hours ago, Jeff S said:

(no scratches for me), and hold value,

My 50 and 90 APO got plenty of scratches on the metal barrel. 

Re: hold value. That's true only for the M line, because it's an universal mount compatible with all other camera brands. Everything else devalues. You can find a 24-90 for 2900€ in excellent conditions from MPB, vs the 5600€ retail price from Leica. That's about half price, or a 2700€ loss, depending on how you look at it. So no, SL lenses are not immune to depreciation, just like the SL2 can now be had for a very good price. 

[BernardC]

It's true that the M system is its own category, in terms of depreciation. There is nothing remotely close in the photographic world.

That being said, if you complain to a Canon/Nikon/Sony user that your 24-90 depreciated by 50% after 10 years, they'll mock you. Other systems can barely hold-on to 20% of their purchase price after a decade. 

I'm sure someone will find a counter-example, like for instance if you had one of the few EOS 50/1.0 lenses that still works. Those are rare enough to be purely anecdotal. 

Edited July 6 by BernardC
bad phrasing

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

My 50 and 90 APO got plenty of scratches on the metal barrel. 

Re: hold value. That's true only for the M line, because it's a universal mount compatible with all other camera brands. Everything else devalues. You can find a 24-90 for 2900€ in excellent conditions from MPB, vs the 5600€ retail price from Leica. That's about half price, or a 2700€ loss, depending on how you look at it. So no, SL lenses are not immune to depreciation, just like the SL2 can now be had for a very good price. 

Sure, and that’s why the SL lenses are more affordable than M lenses.  I bought my 90-280 used, and sold it without loss or scratches years later.  My 24-90 gets used almost daily; still no scratches after years, and there is no Sigma equivalent. If I ever part with it, I’ll get a far better deal than MPB would offer; best to know where to buy vs where to sell. The Leica lenses still typically hold greater value than Sigma. The lens I’m trading for the 28-70 is an M lens that still holds value despite multiple new updates.

I’ve also owned the R line, and 11 other camera/lens brands since 1974, so I think I have a reasonable basis for comparison.

Edited July 6 by Jeff S

[Simone_DF]

10 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Other systems can barely hold-on to 20% of their purchase price after a decade. 

Can you post some real example? Or did you just make that up? I went and checked on MPB.com. I picked Sony because it's the only mirrorless brand older than 10 years. Canon and Nikon came later on.

Sony 55mm, 750€ brand new, 450€ used. Release date 2013.

Sony 70-200 F4, first model, 1500€ brand new, 900€ used. Release date 2014.

Sony 70-200 F2.8, first model, 3100 brand new, 1900€ brand used. Release date 2016.

Sony 28mm, one the weakest lens in that lineup, 380€ new, 250€ used. Release date 205.

[Jeff S]

The Mathphotographer loves the new lens, even while owning both the SL 24-70 and 24-90.

 

[jacopastorius]

6 hours ago, Jeff S said:

The Mathphotographer loves the new lens, even while owning both the SL 24-70 and 24-90.

 

many thanks this is the review I was waiting for

[BernardC]

22 hours ago, Simone_DF said:

Can you post some real example? Or did you just make that up? I went and checked on MPB.com.

Those are strange prices. Why would MPB sell old Sony zooms for more than current-gen (GM) models? Is there a collector market? That generation of Sony zooms was especially trouble-prone, and even Sony couldn't fix them. I remember it well because a few local video pros got "free" pro zooms with their FS700 kits. A few months later they were all shooting EOS lenses with adapters. One told me how his zoom split in half during a shot. The front of the lens hit the floor while the rear was still attached to his camera! Sony replaced it (he was a big customer), but he immediately sold the replacement. I can't imagine who would service these lenses in 2025.

Later Sony lenses are better, but people who shoot Sony tell me that they get 20 cents on the dollar on them even if they are in great shape.

[Jeff S]

5 hours ago, jacopastorius said:

many thanks this is the review I was waiting for

I like his reviews as well, but this is hardly one of his more detailed reviews, mostly covering specs, and later more about his Wetzlar tour.  The other reviews I linked provide some more practical details, like Gaston Shutters using both the Leica and Sigma versions in the rain for two days, with the Sigma fogging up twice.  Yet he honestly assesses that the Sigma is still a terrific buy, with similar IQ.  

I got a little something out of all 4 reviews I linked, which is typically my goal, after which only hands on use via rental, demo or purchase demonstrates details that no reviewer can assess for me.
 

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[Simone_DF]

40 minutes ago, BernardC said:

Those are strange prices. Why would MPB sell old Sony zooms for more than current-gen (GM) models? Is there a collector market? That generation of Sony zooms was especially trouble-prone, and even Sony couldn't fix them.

Current GM prices are higher. The Sony 70-200 F4 II is 1999€ brand new on Amazon. 

I just had a quick look on Ebay, and even there the first generation of 70-200 F4 goes for 800-900€, so in line with MPB. 

[BernardC]

1 hour ago, Simone_DF said:

Current GM prices are higher. The Sony 70-200 F4 II is 1999€ brand new on Amazon. 

I just had a quick look on Ebay, and even there the first generation of 70-200 F4 goes for 800-900€, so in line with MPB. 

Are we looking at a different MPB? The latest model "like new" starts around 800, but the previous model is below that. Plus I'm not sure why people pay more to get it from that store, maybe their service is great. 700 on a 2,000 lens is roughly 1/3, which is in-line with the 20% trade-in I mentioned.