To update or to change systems?

[Jeff S]

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11 minutes ago, jaapv said:

As Sergio says, no reason it shouldn't. All lenses with additional AF/MF switch do. BBF is a body function. 

I think I read that there was a limitation with lenses that use a focus clutch mechanism (Panasonic).

[BernardC]

19 hours ago, S Maclean said:

The 907 is really a V camera, not an X. You will love the 907x until the honeymoon period is over, and then you will buy some other camera that you can bang around a little bit more.

It sounds like the 907 might be a better option on the used market: lots of supply, good turnover.

I like V camera ergonomics for many types of photography, including posed portraits and landscapes. I'm sure that's partly because I am taller than average, so eye-level portraiture forces me to bend down uncomfortably with an SLR/EVF. The XCD seems like too much of a compromise in the other direction: it has an EVF, but not a great one, especially since its AF isn't very good (neither is Fuji's), it doesn't have the comfortable grip of an all-day/event camera, it's "small" for what it is, but not really that small.

I would be better-off with the body that does a few things well, instead of the all-rounder that doesn't excel at anything.

The lens line is a bit hot-and-cold as well. You have a choice of cheaper/smaller lenses that aren't at the top of their game, or big/heavy/expensive lenses that are disproportionate to the bodies for handheld work. That's one of the things that Leica got right with the S: it has the most consistent lens lineup this side of cinema offerings. The only thing you need to know about an S lens is focal length, because it will match every other S lens at every aperture.

[S Maclean]

1 hour ago, BernardC said:

It sounds like the 907 might be a better option on the used market: lots of supply, good turnover.

I like V camera ergonomics for many types of photography, including posed portraits and landscapes. I'm sure that's partly because I am taller than average, so eye-level portraiture forces me to bend down uncomfortably with an SLR/EVF. The XCD seems like too much of a compromise in the other direction: it has an EVF, but not a great one, especially since its AF isn't very good (neither is Fuji's), it doesn't have the comfortable grip of an all-day/event camera, it's "small" for what it is, but not really that small.

I would be better-off with the body that does a few things well, instead of the all-rounder that doesn't excel at anything.

The lens line is a bit hot-and-cold as well. You have a choice of cheaper/smaller lenses that aren't at the top of their game, or big/heavy/expensive lenses that are disproportionate to the bodies for handheld work. That's one of the things that Leica got right with the S: it has the most consistent lens lineup this side of cinema offerings. The only thing you need to know about an S lens is focal length, because it will match every other S lens at every aperture.

Spot on. That’s why I’m keeping the 907x, also because it is compatible with vintage 500 MF cameras and other pro camera systems, so it’s a really fun camera.

for what it’s worth the X2D does have a swivel back screen ( and a very good screen at that) so for your particular issue with height it still works well.

spot on on the lenses too, although the 28p and the 45 ( cheaper lenses) are still really good.  But the SL lineup, specially the APO lineup, is incredibly consistent and high performing throughout. Period. As are the zooms and alliance lenses, with perhaps more variables in IQ (except the 24-90 and 90-280 which are legacy)

[Olaf_ZG]

As the day was hot, I did some reading. For long exposures the x1d2 would do for me, combined with the 28 or 30, and the 90 and later on the 135 plus converter. Purely working off a tripod. A flipscreen will be missed, but the price difference between a x1 and x2 is too much for that. As it is meant for tripod work, ibis is not needed either.

I will keep the SL2, SL lux and most probably the t/s and macro, as they are relatively off low value when trading in.

But, first I will try the SL for some long exposures (16min and more) once more. Will keep you posted.

[Olaf_ZG]

I went on a small trip to the Italian coast. With the Q only. I tried to do some long exposure images, but I couldn’t get the Q expose for more than 30 seconds. For sure it is an user error, but it was rather ignoring not to be able to find out what was wrong with the settings.

Furthermore, the LENR is really annoying, even with a 30s exposure.

The flipscreen was great though, as it makes composing from a tripod so much easier.

BUT, this means it rules out the x1d(2). As my Q did got wet (breaking waves), I guess the 907 should be ruled out as well.

Leaves me the x2d. Will really need to think about which lenses. 28p vs 30 will save me some money.

[T25UFO]

9 minutes ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I tried to do some long exposure images, but I couldn’t get the Q expose for more than 30 seconds. For sure it is an user error,

Not user error, but rather a feature of the Q.  The maximum exposure time depends on the ISO setting.  Q3 allows shutter speeds up to 2 minutes in S and M modes but if you increase the ISO, the shutter speed will reduce proportionately.  On the T setting shutter opens on first press and closes on second press, as you would expect, but I believe the same limitations of ISO and time apply.

[Olaf_ZG]

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59 minutes ago, T25UFO said:

Not user error, but rather a feature of the Q.  The maximum exposure time depends on the ISO setting.  Q3 allows shutter speeds up to 2 minutes in S and M modes but if you increase the ISO, the shutter speed will reduce proportionately.  On the T setting shutter opens on first press and closes on second press, as you would expect, but I believe the same limitations of ISO and time apply.

We could call it a feature, but I would simple conclude that the Q is incapable of real long exposure.

Which is fine, as it has many other great features. I just didn’t expect it, even the mm can do 4 min exposures…

[IkarusJohn]

If you’e considering the X system, then I would stick to the X2D.  I had the X1DII with the 21-28-80-135 (+extender), and sold out of it in frustration as I just couldn’t work with the AF and the manual focus was hopeless.  Others will vary, I guess.

Also, the X2D has the closest user interface to the M system of any other camera, SL included.  In my view, the X2D pairs well with the M system.

But, it is a completely different system requiring different thought.  I don’t buy into good for portrait, landscpe, street etc.  If you understand your equipment, then you find a way of making it work.

One thing not covered, though, is that the systems are very different.  You have full frame systems - certainly selling down what you don’t use or don’t need/like is a good idea (as @hansvons says so well).  But there are a huge number of options for M lenses, all good for 28-75 (or so) and the SL is good for telephoto, if you take any (I use mine with a macro lens for scanning negatives and slides).  

But the X2D is wide.  I have (or had) one lens for my X2D - a 38V.  At some point I will probably add the 25V.  It’s the focal range which drives my choices with this system.  I currently have the 80/1.9 as a loaner (waiting for them to replace my 38V - a year and counting), and I doubt I would buy this lens again.  I have the Noct 0.95 in a more useable size and weight, with not really that much to gain from the 80.  

Carrying a bag with 3 XCD lenses got me looking at my M system more carefully.

I like my X2D with the 38V, and enjoyed travelling with it a couple of years ago.  It would be fine for portraits and landscape - you just need to choose the focal lengths that work for you, and get your head around the new system.  But it is hard, in my view, to think of it as a complementary system - it’s different.

[Olaf_ZG]

I am in doubt. I do not need 100mp, but I do would like to have a tilt screen. Furthermore, having a Q, the camera would be used mainly for long exposure. So, to me, the 30mm and 90mm would do, and in the very long term a 135 plus extender. But then, it is expensive so I  might need to sell my Q43 and buy additional a 45p.

Another option would be a gfx50s ii, plus the 32-64, 100-200 and maybe the 50. For daily carry not that nice, but for purely tripod work great. And half the price of the HB.

I put up the complete SL set for sale locally. As well as the Q. Will see where it goes when I sell some items. For now, a SL2 plus (only) the lux, the Q and a simplified gfx set might do.

The GFX won’t trigger gas as much as Hasselblad as it is ugly and heavy, but I doubt anyone could see a difference in my long exposure images from either two. Before Leica I had a 50r and it performed great for long exposure. 

[IkarusJohn]

I’m not sure what need you’re trying to fill.

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I put up the complete SL set for sale locally. As well as the Q. Will see where it goes when I sell some items. For now, a SL2 plus (only) the lux, the Q and a simplified gfx set might do.

 

23 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m not sure what need you’re trying to fill.

Neither am I.

(I was kind of bored with my SL2-S because, in the end, it’s just another digital camera with a dreadful electronic viewfinder. But then that fashion business knocked on my door and I was too curious to let it pass (shot tons of music videos in the 90s and loved it). So, I figured I need to learn using flash. And, BTW, what camera and lens? I had the SL2-S but no lens. A zoom? Not again. Never liked them. I checked the framing, distances, the studio, the shots I was expected to deliver and figured my beloved 35mm focal length will do just fine. But I didn’t own a proper 35mm AF lens. What a great excuse to buy the 35mm APO.

What to say? Best decision ever in digital photography. What a lens. At f/2, unbeatable and tons of welcome character. At f/2.8 and above, the sharpest imaging tool one can expect. And it renders faces as flat as any other classic 35mm Leica prime (as opposed to the zooms at 35mm, including the 24-90.)

I will be taking it on a spin on an event next week. It certainly will perform brilliantly. 

No looking back and no new camera.)

 

[Olaf_ZG]

1 hour ago, IkarusJohn said:

I’m not sure what need you’re trying to fill.

The SL system is great, except for serious long exposure. A type of photography I want to do next to portraits.

For the latter, the SL lux is superb, no doubt.

For long exposure, I didn’t make up my mind yet. The gfx would be only used on a tripod, the x2d would need to replace my Q.

The gfx would be functional, the x2d would partially be gas.

@hansvonsI appreciate your feedback, and can resonate with your thoughts. I made the mistake to buy into the SL system thinking I need an all round camera. But I don’t need that. I need a specific tool for a certain job: portrait and/or long exposure.

The first one can be done perfectly with the SL, the second can’t sadly….

[Biotar]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Olaf_ZG:

The SL system is great, except for serious long exposure. A type of photography I want to do next to portraits.

Why don't you just deactivate the double exposure?

[LD_50]

1 hour ago, Biotar said:

Why don't you just deactivate the double exposure?

Was this an option with SL and SL2/S? I know it’s there for the SL3/S but don’t remember it on the previous ones. 

[IkarusJohn]

6 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

The SL system is great, except for serious long exposure. A type of photography I want to do next to portraits.

For the latter, the SL lux is superb, no doubt.

For long exposure, I didn’t make up my mind yet. The gfx would be only used on a tripod, the x2d would need to replace my Q.

The gfx would be functional, the x2d would partially be gas.

@hansvonsI appreciate your feedback, and can resonate with your thoughts. I made the mistake to buy into the SL system thinking I need an all round camera. But I don’t need that. I need a specific tool for a certain job: portrait and/or long exposure.

The first one can be done perfectly with the SL, the second can’t sadly….

Perhaps look at Vieri’s site.  He’s moved on from the X2D, but there’s lots of good content there.

[Olaf_ZG]

6 hours ago, Biotar said:

Why don't you just deactivate the double exposure?

Have you tried this with exposures longer than 8 minutes?

[Olaf_ZG]

31 minutes ago, IkarusJohn said:

Perhaps look at Vieri’s site.  He’s moved on from the X2D, but there’s lots of good content there.

I read his site, and if it wasn’t for a tilting screen, the x1d2 would be good enough for me. AF I wouldn’t need, so this won’t be a negative thing. 
 

At the other hand, if he manages without a tiltable screen, maybe I should be able as well.

[hansvons]

8 hours ago, Olaf_ZG said:

I need a specific tool for a certain job: portrait and/or long exposure.

Sorry for being a sloppy reader. You said that earlier, but for some reason, it's crystal clear to me only now. Your requirements are a camera that excels at portraits and long exposure. I've never worked with it, but from what I read, the Hasselblad X2d seems to be the right tool for that, as it's geared towards portraiture and landscape photography. 

So, why not sell everything and buy an X2d with a 45mm lens (ideal for landscape and environmental portraits) and test the waters? When you are happy with it, you can buy a 75mm MF equivalent lens to take close-ups. Perhaps you'd like to keep the Q for travel. And, as I learned earlier, you own an M and a few lenses as well. You might sell these as well if they are collecting dust and are not collectables. A digital M is certainly not a collectable and can be repurchased at any time. (And haven't you engaged with 6x6 portrait photography as well? I can recall some lovely images.)

In my experience, it's liberating to focus on a few key aspects that are crucial to your work and let others handle the rest. I have some experience in shooting wildlife at a semi-professional level. But I'm not good at it. You must be at heart a hunter and shooter with sniper skills–I don't have that. So, whenever this pops up, I leave it to my brother and do the editing afterwards. So, he owns the wildlife gear, and he looks through the lens. But I do the rest, including setting up the camera, editing, and printing. 

[ahl]

I have been reading this post with interest : The simplest solution is to hire or borrow the system you are tempted by: it is only after you have used it for a while that you will be clearer on your choices.

I am quite ancient now and moved from M 240 to Sl as my eyesight was deteriorating, then upgraded to SL2 for the IBIS with my M lenses as my handholding was not was good as I imagined.

I can understand your desire to upgrade but wonder if a swap of the SL to a later body might suffice. The Apo  lenses are so sharp that they reproduce every imperfection and blemish in portraits and therefore the results are not always pleasing. Another factor that is very important for me is the weight and bulk of my system  when carting it about cross country for landscapes.

Another factor that would influence me is the financial cost of selling or part-exchanging my system as it was a serious investment. As for the reliability of Leica as I have never had to get anything repaired in the 40 years of constant Leica use of amm embarrassingly large collection, except for the M9 sensor swap where I was well looked after officially, by the company. That is one advantage of waiting to upgrade: keeping a close eye on this forum to check out the teething problems. There are great mint bargains around from reputable dealers from photographers who cannot resist GAS. I usually miss any Leica gear that I have sold.

I can honestly say I do not mollycoddle my Leicas but use them in the rain with no untoward effect, but do obsessionally protect it, at those times and use good quality suitable cases. I seem to have accumulated many cases tailored to each outfit to minimise bulk and weight, especially when on planes.

Good luck!

 

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[Olaf_ZG]

@ahl sadly I don’t have the possibility to try/rent.

@hansvonsgreat insights. I will not sell my M’s though, as I enjoy them too much. The Q might go though.

At current I have put my Q and the complete SL system up for sale, except for the SL2 plus SL Lux (it is my best portrait lens ever, so hard to part with).

Though the GFX has a tiltable screen, color science is important for long exposure. So HB will be.

That said, I simply can’t justify paying 8k for a camera, which will drop in price as soon as a successor comes, so despite the lack of a tiltable screen I probably go for the x1d2 with the 30, 45p and 90.

Later on, I can than try the 80/1.9 to see if it can replace the Lux and eventually upgrade to a x2d…