LLL 35mm f2 or Leica 35mm f2 (11882) or other?

[Kiwimac]

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I’m looking for a 35mm to slot between my 28 Lux and 50 Apo. 
 

The options in the running are (in no particular order)

 

1)LLL 8 element

 2) Genuine original 8 element

 3) Current Leica version

4) Leica 11882 pre-owned which I think is the version before the current one  so might be chromed brass rather than aluminium  

Having two relatively modern options, I thought something with a more character rendering might be nice but that’s not a deal breaker.

 The only 35mm I owned was the Leica Apo which, yes I know, I should have kept. However that’s well out of budget right now.  
 

I discounted the Voigtlander Apo on the grounds of size. I’d prefer this one to be smaller. Eventually I’ll get the Leica Apo again.

 Thoughts?

 

 

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[mottykytu]

19 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

I’m looking for a 35mm to slot between my 28 Lux and 50 Apo. 
 

The options in the running are (in no particular order)

 

1)LLL 8 element

 2) Genuine original 8 element

 3) Current Leica version

4) Leica 11882 pre-owned which I think is the version before the current one  so might be chromed brass rather than aluminium  

Having two relatively modern options, I thought something with a more character rendering might be nice but that’s not a deal breaker.

 The only 35mm I owned was the Leica Apo which, yes I know, I should have kept. However that’s well out of budget right now.  
 

I discounted the Voigtlander Apo on the grounds of size. I’d prefer this one to be smaller. Eventually I’ll get the Leica Apo again.

 Thoughts?

 

 

1. LLL greats lens IF IT IS GOOD QC, otherwise you can HARDLY CLA it or get support from them ==> TEST VERY CAREFULLY
2. You don't have money for it, or if you do, it not worth the price unless you are looking for collection item
3. Current version is good if you shoot m10 or m11, but no character compare to 8 elements (both LLL and original)
4 .the 11882 is good ASPH, but again, no character

If you have already own 35mm Summicron APO, I don't see the point of buying the current version or 11882 as they are no vintage character (just like the APO) but the APO is much better correction and in any way. You should save up and re-buy the APO, if you like the modern rendering, If you buy the ASPH Version you will miss your APO ALOT !

Edited May 30 by mottykytu

[Kiwimac]

There’s an original, CLA’d 8 element I can get for about NZ$5,000 less than a new 35 Summilux or about $2,000 more than a new LLL version. 
 

I don’t especially want to spend that much but I would if I thought it might be worth twice as much in 10 years!

 

I can’t test the LLL as there are no dealers in NZ and I would have to order direct from them sight unseen. 

[mottykytu]

7 minutes ago, Kiwimac said:

There’s an original, CLA’d 8 element I can get for about NZ$5,000 less than a new 35 Summilux or about $2,000 more than a new LLL version. 
 

I don’t especially want to spend that much but I would if I thought it might be worth twice as much in 10 years!

 

I can’t test the LLL as there are no dealers in NZ and I would have to order direct from them sight unseen. 

If you can get the orginal CLA Leica 8 element for that price (which seem impossible in US), you should get it, as the price will only go up, and you don't have to worry about "If this LLL replicate the original Leica 8 Element well?"

All the other lens mentioned here you can get them anytime you want, even the APO !

Just to make sure your 8 element is NON-GOGGLE version

Edited May 30 by mottykytu

[Kiwimac]

Yes it’s non goggle. 
 

I’ll see how flexible the seller is on price!

[jankap]

A 35 mm is not necessary as a bridge between 28 mm and 50 mm.  I propose to spend the money for a course in Lightroom/Photoshop. Otherwise your next step will be to search for lenses with focal lengths of 30, 38, 42, 45 and 48 mm.🫠

Edited May 30 by jankap

[pippy]

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5 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

I’m looking for a 35mm to slot between my 28 Lux and 50 Apo.

1)LLL 8 element

 2) Genuine original 8 element

 3) Current Leica version

 Thoughts?

As far as the first two are concerned you should have a look through this thread;

https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/326477-summicron-352-8-element-vs-light-lens-lab-352-a-direct-comparison/#comment-4312043

As mentioned somewhere in the above I was considering an original 8-Element to pair with my '72 35mm Summilux v2 but couldn't find one in good enough condition for a reasonable price. As such acquiring an LLL was (for me) an ideal solution. I could not be happier with the lens; it is pretty near perfect for my needs.

Philip.

[Kiwimac]

2 hours ago, jankap said:

A 35 mm is not necessary as a bridge between 28 mm and 50 mm.  I propose to spend the money for a course in Lightroom/Photoshop. Otherwise your next step will be to search for lenses with focal lengths of 30, 38, 42, 45 and 48 mm.🫠

It’s not so much a bridge as it is a good compromise when travelling light. 

[f8low]

Get a 11689 to match your apo 😉

[Kiwimac]

I’d love to get the matching one. However I can get an original 8E for a third of the price of the 11689!

[JoshuaR]

There are no bad decisions here, really, but I thought I'd just throw in some praise for the LLL 8e. I have the collapsible version, and it makes the camera ludicrously small. The images are superb. With the lens collapsed, my M10-R fits neatly in a coat pocket.

It's a good enough lens that I sometimes consider selling my New Steel Rim—which I love—and just relying on it when I sometimes want to shoot 35mm. Especially since my main lenses are 28 and 50.

Edited May 30 by JoshuaR

[Smudgerer]

56 minutes ago, JoshuaR said:

There are no bad decisions here, really, but I thought I'd just throw in some praise for the LLL 8e. I have the collapsible version, and it makes the camera ludicrously small. The images are superb. With the lens collapsed, my M10-R fits neatly in a coat pocket.

It's a good enough lens that I sometimes consider selling my New Steel Rim—which I love—and just relying on it when I sometimes want to shoot 35mm. Especially since my main lenses are 28 and 50.

Yes, I had the LLL collapsible 35, ( "had" because I recently gifted it to a friend ), it's a very nice lens indeed. I had the silver finish one purposely bought to use with my silver M2, as you say, very pocket-able. I'd buy it again, next time in black, but for two things: 1/ Luckily it's discontinued I believe so that's probably out, and 2/ I already have the legal limit of M 35mm lenses so to purchase another would be stupid.......though that's not yet proved to be an impediment to date. I love that FL.

To Kiwimac's question, of all my 35mm FL lenses the best for me are the Summicron 35 F2 V4 and the Summicron 35 F2 ASPH. Money aside, with all the actually pretty damn good third party choices of M 35mm FL lenses out there I've proven to myself that it has been a better idea to choose the Leica lenses if at all possible.

PS. Keep the SR.

Edited May 30 by Smudgerer

[wizard]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb mottykytu:

Just to make sure your 8 element is NON-GOGGLE version

Why? Is the goggled version less good?

[TomB_tx]

15 minutes ago, wizard said:

Why? Is the goggled version less good?

IQ is the same, but added VF lenses of goggles affect the VF image. I had mine CLA'd by DAG which helped, but still worse than using one without goggles. A necessary "evil" with the M3 VF, but on other Ms I avoid it.

Edited May 30 by TomB_tx

[Kiwimac]

I spoke with the dealer selling the OG 8E. He is selling it on behalf of a customer.

He invited me to  borrow it for a wee while and see how I found it, which I will do soon. I will report back!

I noted that the lens is a year older than I am!

Edited May 31 by Kiwimac

[TheBestSLIsALeicaflex]

Do you shoot film or digital?  Is it for color, mostly, or B&W, mostly?  How important is it to have a branded "Leica" lens, or would you be equally happy with a third party M mount lens that has your desired optical qualities?

I don't believe there are any "bad" lenses currently being marketed -- we are truly living I n the Golden Age of rangefinder optics.

Your desire for a "character" lens and then lamenting the loss of the APO lens seems a bit inconsistent.  The modern, clinical look isn't going to give you much character.  Character lenses tend to be "flawed," older designs.   I'm sure you know that already; just saying you may not have that modern APO + character in the same lens.

The real two categories of character lenses in that focal length that come to mind are the pre-aspherical summilux/voightlander Nokton 35/1.4.  Small, light, lots of character at wide apertures, glowy highlights with the Summilux, but sharpens up significantly when stopped down.  I've owned multiples of all of them over the years and prefer the Voigtlander.  As you mentioned the 8 element/LLL is another.  Small, high resolution, modest contrast which is great for B&W.  the f/2.8 Summaron is similar.  I've had great experience with LLL, owning five of their lenses.  Great recreations of old glass (eg, character lenses); in fact, better made than Leica lenses.  

Edited May 31 by TheBestSLIsALeicaflex

[Kiwimac]

I took the plunge and ordered the LLL 35 f2. 
 

I don’t think it will stop me missing the 35 Apo Summicron - I see them as very different tools. 
 

I ordered what the very helpful LLL people told me was the last  copy of the HC-B edition available. 
 

I picked that one for two reasons: It’s a reproduction of the one that HCB had custom made by Leica which had the infinity lock removed and a tab in its place. I can’t imagine anything less helpful than focus locking at infinity.  Secondly because it has white and red scales on the barrel which match my Apo 50 black chrome 11811. The main reason was the lack of infinity lock. &nbsp
 

I’ll post some images when it gets here. 

Edited June 4 by Kiwimac

[TomB_tx]

12 hours ago, Kiwimac said:

I can’t imagine anything less helpful than focus locking at infinity.

I disagree - great feature that lets you get leverage with the tab and main body to mount and remove the lens, Avoids loosening the optical cell from grasping the front section of the lens when mounting/dismounting - which can work the internal locking ring loose.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Kiwimac]

Well it seems to be entirely absent on every lens made in the past 30 or more years…do you might be proposing the dissenting opinion!

 

I cannot imagine anything more irritating than missing the decisive moment because my lens had locked at infinity when I was trying to focus it. Clearly HC-B (may you be touched by his brass Summicron) agreed. 

[caranatar]

LTM to M mount adapters are extremely small and light it won't make a noticeable different