Trade in 35mm APO-M for a 35mm 1.4 Lux?

[Crem]

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Just now, Derbyshire Man said:

I was joking, chromatic aberration is not going to be directly obvious in the same way in black and white, what with it being chromatic. It is still there of course and visible if you flip backward and forward.

My guess is that if there were no *chromatic* aberration there'd be no need for a more expensive *apochromatic* lens in the first place!

I shoot on a used FLE 1 

Oh I missed the B&W part. Agreed you aren't going to see CA on that situation. I wonder if the new Photoshop colorize AI feature will add in some CA to make the photo look more real 😀

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[RexGig0]

On 5/19/2025 at 4:30 PM, Jan1985 said:

Would you trade in a 35mm APO-M for a 35mm 1.4 Lux? I think about that because I am mostly doing weddings and documentary photography. And I think that the Lux can render with slightly more character!?

What is wrong with the APO’s “character?” What is better, about the FLE’s “character?” (Rhetorical questions, to be answered for one’s self.)

I have never had the pleasure of shooting with a 35 APO M, nor have I ever seen one at a dealer, or in the wild, but, no, I would NOT trade an APO for a Summilux-M 35mm FLE! (I have test-shot a Leica dealer’s demonstrator Summilux-M 35mm FLE.)

[patrickcolpron]

18 minutes ago, RexGig0 said:

What is wrong with the APO’s “character?” What is better, about the FLE’s “character?” (Rhetorical questions, to be answered for one’s self.)

It is not better, nothing is wrong with either lens' character. They are different, I prefer the APO over the FLE for two reasons, better contrasts and color rendition plus it is much better against the light.

I tend to shoot a lot against the light. The FLE loses color and definition against the light whereas the APO 35 doesn't. 

I just prefer the rendition of the APO 35 over the 35 FLE, there is more "pop" to it wide open at f/2 than there is with the FLE at f/1.4

The APO 35 is not my favorite 35 in Leica's line up yet it is my desert Island lens because it is the best against the light, period. 

Edited May 21 by patrickcolpron
Saved before finishing ...

[Crem]

3 minutes ago, patrickcolpron said:

It is not better, nothing is wrong with either lens' character. They are different, I prefer the APO over the FLE for two reasons, better contrasts and color rendition plus it is much better against the light.

I tend to shoot a lot against the light. The FLE loses color and definition against the light whereas the APO 35 doesn't. 

I just prefer the rendition of the APO 35 over the 35 FLE, there is more "pop" to it wide open at f/2 than there is with the FLE at f/1.4

The APO 35 is not my favorite 35 in Leica's line up yet it is my desert Island lens because it is the best against the light, period. 

How do you find the ergonomics of the APO? How's the focus feel compared to the FLE? Everyone has their priorities and for me the FLE is on the very edge of being too big/heavy for the M. I'm more than happy with it, but I can't imagine myself walking around with something bigger like the future f1.2. I've never used the APO, but I suspect I would ergonomically prefer it over the FLE. That said, shooting for one day (today) with the FLE made me like it all over again. This really is a case of picking from a bunch of great lenses.

[patrickcolpron]

1 hour ago, Crem said:

How do you find the ergonomics of the APO? How's the focus feel compared to the FLE? 

There isn't that much of a difference between the two. Yet the APO feels better in hand because it is slightly smaller and shorter, I prefer smaller lenses on an M. The design of the APO feels more refined, slightly more ergonomic.

The FLE weights 306 grams, the APO comes in at 296 grams. (Both lenses without their lens hood with just the thread protector.) They are roughly the same weight.

The metal lens cap of the APO 35 fits on the FLE version 1. I tend to use my lenses without their lens hood, but the lens hood of the APO doesn't bother at all so I tend to leave it on. 

The FLE from the mount is wider than the APO, up to the aperture control ring, the front of the FLE is the same circumference as the APO.

The FLE, in my opinion, looks much better on the camera and as a lens with its bigger concave front element. Yet the APO feels more balanced on the camera. 

Because of how I tend to make photos, against the light, I prefer the APO for the resulting images I am able to make with it. 

The ergonomics of older and smaller Summicron lenses feel better but they are pretty much useless against the light. (Think 35 Summicron V4) 

I really like the FLE yet I prefer the APO, I'll leave the FLE for a week on my camera to see what I make with it and decide if I keep it because I have so seldom used it since buying the APO when it was released that it makes little sense hanging on to it.

All of this said, the FLE has held up better than the APO, it feels more "unbreakable" if that makes any sense. The focus ring is much looser on the APO than the FLE and I have used the FLE extensively and longer than any other lens before getting the APO. 

[Crem]

7 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

There isn't that much of a difference between the two. Yet the APO feels better in hand because it is slightly smaller and shorter, I prefer smaller lenses on an M. The design of the APO feels more refined, slightly more ergonomic.

The FLE weights 306 grams, the APO comes in at 296 grams. (Both lenses without their lens hood with just the thread protector.) They are roughly the same weight.

The metal lens cap of the APO 35 fits on the FLE version 1. I tend to use my lenses without their lens hood, but the lens hood of the APO doesn't bother at all so I tend to leave it on. 

The FLE from the mount is wider than the APO, up to the aperture control ring, the front of the FLE is the same circumference as the APO.

The FLE, in my opinion, looks much better on the camera and as a lens with its bigger concave front element. Yet the APO feels more balanced on the camera. 

Because of how I tend to make photos, against the light, I prefer the APO for the resulting images I am able to make with it. 

The ergonomics of older and smaller Summicron lenses feel better but they are pretty much useless against the light. (Think 35 Summicron V4) 

I really like the FLE yet I prefer the APO, I'll leave the FLE for a week on my camera to see what I make with it and decide if I keep it because I have so seldom used it since buying the APO when it was released that it makes little sense hanging on to it.

All of this said, the FLE has held up better than the APO, it feels more "unbreakable" if that makes any sense. The focus ring is much looser on the APO than the FLE and I have used the FLE extensively and longer than any other lens before getting the APO. 

Patrick, thanks for all the info. That really adds a lot of real world experience for me to think about.

I never noticed that the APO 35 and FLE weight basically the same. The APO really looks so much more compact from photos. It must feel really dense in the hand.

I'll be super curious to see what you do with the FLE. I used my FLEv1 for a day and it really reminded me why I keep it. Overall it's a good lens and can do just about everything. That said, if I had the APO I suspect I would end up using it over the FLE in every situation except environmental portraits.

Edited May 22 by Crem

[evikne]

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Has anyone mentioned that the rather wide focus ring on the APO can actually be used to grip when focusing? For me, this is one of the most important ergonomic differences compared to the others, where you are more or less forced to use the focus tab.

Edited May 22 by evikne

[Crem]

16 minutes ago, evikne said:

Has anyone mentioned that the rather wide focus ring on the APO can actually be used to grip when focusing? For me, this is one of the most important ergonomic differences compared to the others, where you are more or less forced to use the focus tab.

I'm glad you reminded me. It's one of my favorite features of the 50:1.4 ASPH. Fast focus with the tab and precise focus with the ring depending on how it's being used. It's was sad to see this feature disappear when they made the close focus version of the 50:1.4.

[evikne]

6 minutes ago, Crem said:

I'm glad you reminded me. It's one of my favorite features of the 50:1.4 ASPH. Fast focus with the tab and precise focus with the ring depending on how it's being used. It's was sad to see this feature disappear when they made the close focus version of the 50:1.4.

It seems that the rumored 35mm Noctilux will also have a rather generous focus ring.

[patrickcolpron]

On 5/22/2025 at 6:55 AM, Crem said:

I'll be super curious to see what you do with the FLE. I used my FLEv1 for a day and it really reminded me why I keep it. Overall it's a good lens and can do just about everything. That said, if I had the APO I suspect I would end up using it over the FLE in every situation except environmental portraits.

I haven't made a whole lot of photos with it, the FLE V1 is a great looking lens, the fringing is there even when there shouldn't be fringing, here is a photo of my youngest from this weekend. 

I know why I prefer the APO 35 over it, I really do not like the purple fringing in bright sunlight and green fringing in less harsh light condition. Look at the street sign on the right hand side. There is green fringing in the out of focus highlights in the tree canopy, what some call "bokeh balls", which I am not crazy about. At least it doesn't have onion rings in those out of focus highlights unlike the APO 35, which being an APO lens it has.

It is not a bad lens, it is a very good lens, but I prefer the out of focus rendering and lack of CA from the APO 35 and New Steel Rim to the rendering of the FLE if that makes sense. 

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Plus I managed to miss the focus on this photo but it is okay, as it captured my son's expression and moment perfectly. Made with an M10R at iso 400 

[Tseg]

Aargh... after months of consideration whether I even need a 35mm to add to my 28mm Summicron ASPH III, 50mm Summilux ASPH II and 90mm APO Summicron, this morning I placed the order for the 35mm APO.   The FLE Summilux was only gently considered... moreso, the steel rim 35mm was the strong alternative to the APO.   I figured I either wanted modern or I wanted retro, with the FLE being not really being either.   I imagine someday I will get the Steel Rim, but I figured I would regret not getting it first much less than not getting the APO first.   Longer term, I figure there will be less cost appreciation to the Steel Rim than the APO.  Now I will have a pretty full suite of "modern" lenses, and that look historically has been my preference with my M11.   At some point in the future I may go through my "vintage period".   I already have a mental placeholder for the M12M to be my next M body... maybe that is when I explore more artsy "character" lenses.

[Crem]

10 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

I haven't made a whole lot of photos with it, the FLE V1 is a great looking lens, the fringing is there even when there shouldn't be fringing, here is a photo of my youngest from this weekend. 

I know why I prefer the APO 35 over it, I really do not like the purple fringing in bright sunlight and green fringing in less harsh light condition. Look at the street sign on the right hand side. There is green fringing in the out of focus highlights in the tree canopy, what some call "bokeh balls", which I am not crazy about. At least it doesn't have onion rings in those out of focus highlights unlike the APO 35, which being an APO lens it has.

It is not a bad lens, it is a very good lens, but I prefer the out of focus rendering and lack of CA from the APO 35 and New Steel Rim to the rendering of the FLE if that makes sense. 

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Plus I managed to miss the focus on this photo but it is okay, as it captured my son's expression and moment perfectly. Made with an M10R at iso 400 

Wonderful family photo and I agree moment + expression is what counts most. I've experienced the same green fringing many a time with the FLE in bright outdoor sun. These days I tend to be able to predict when it will happen, but it's easy to overlook something like that sign when framing up a quick moment. For what it's worth, I see more of this green with the 35 FLE at F2 vs a Summicron 28 at F2. I assume the APO would have zero green.

Edited May 26 by Crem

[patrickcolpron]

11 hours ago, Crem said:

 I assume the APO would have zero green.

The APO 35 has zero green but to make sure I will put it back on my camera and try different things, what I did do this morning is compare under a cloudy Parisian day the FLE V1 and V2, they both show the same CA. 

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FLE V1, all photos made with an M10R 

A crop of V1 showing the purple fringing around the Taxi sign at Place de la Madeleine 

A photo made at the same location with the 35 FLE V2 showing the same purple fringing 

A crop of the V2 photo, is this little VA a deal breaker for any given lens, not it isn't but it is there. 

Now V1 to show that green fringing 

There is also some fringing in Cécile's hair but nothing major yet it is there. 

Same with the FLE V1, the CA seems more pronounced in her hair yet it is very similar 

The Leica 35 Summilux FLE is a very good lens, but falls short of great. It is a do it all versatile lens that will get the job done. I prefer the APO 35 over it because it doesn't have any CA to speak of, but comes at a price, the cost of acquisition and a slightly slower lens, yet the APO is a much better lens in my opinion for what I shoot and how I prefer making photos, against the light and I also prefer its rendering.

At the end the day you can't go wrong with either lens, FLE or APO, but I would never trade an APO for an FLE, that would be trading down.

But what do I know? Aside from my own personal preferences... all I know is that I will most likely not keep my FLE after these little comparison tests and that's all I know for sure. 

Edited May 27 by patrickcolpron

[Tseg]

My 35mm APO just arrived today.  What a nifty little lens... even smaller than my 28mm Summicron ASPH III.   I have the Q3 43 that has a similar designed metal lens cap and the Q3 43 cap sits nice and secure on the lens.   Already on Day 1, the APO cap feels slightly on the loose side (and others have made this observation).   I wonder what the design difference is to cause the result, as they both seem of a similar design.  I suppose if I had any reservations about the APO at this point, it would be about that cap fitment, even though it looks beautiful.

[Jeff S]

1 hour ago, Tseg said:

My 35mm APO just arrived today.  What a nifty little lens... even smaller than my 28mm Summicron ASPH III.   I have the Q3 43 that has a similar designed metal lens cap and the Q3 43 cap sits nice and secure on the lens.   Already on Day 1, the APO cap feels slightly on the loose side (and others have made this observation).   I wonder what the design difference is to cause the result, as they both seem of a similar design.  I suppose if I had any reservations about the APO at this point, it would be about that cap fitment, even though it looks beautiful.

There were many complaints about the cap on prior Q models…

This discussion provides some solutions to the 35 APO cap issue..

 

 

[Tseg]

Thanks for the links ^^^^^^.   Unfortunately, so solid solutions identified.

[patrickcolpron]

10 hours ago, Tseg said:

My 35mm APO just arrived today.  [...]  Already on Day 1, the APO cap feels slightly on the loose side (and others have made this observation).   [...] I suppose if I had any reservations about the APO at this point, it would be about that cap fitment, even though it looks beautiful.

The surest way to miss a shot is to have a lens cap on one's lens.

My wife will never let me live down when we veered off the great ocean road in Australia and we saw a Wallaby in the middle of the road, lifted my camera at my feet off the car floor pressed the shutter ... lens cap on. Wallaby ran off by the time I realized what happened and missed that shot... Never made that mistake again - she still laugh at me 20 years on.

I banged a dent on my APO 35 lens cap to make it fit tighter on the lens yet I only put the lens cap on when I put my camera away.

I find the lens hood is perfect as is to protect the lens with or without a lens cap.

Alternatively I also use the lens without its lens hood and then I just put a 39mm plastic pinch lens cap on the lens filter when needed.

For what its worth a new APO 35 lens cap is only €80 

My lens cap can be seen here

https://www.instagram.com/p/DF1PmxtOUbR/?igsh=aHh1cGZxM293bDN4

Just enjoy the lens without worrying too much about the lens cap. 

[steve edmunds]

lucky me as i have the 35mm f1.4  Zeiss , which outperforms the summilux and has beautiful character, bit big though.

no reason for me to buy the APO or the summilux as i have the Zeiss.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[la1402]

I have both the APO and the Lux v2. I like the Lux a lot but I very much  prefer the APO for its smaller size (it handles much better) and much more consistent bokeh. The FLE v2s bokeh can (too often for me) be distractingly harsh. And I must confess I am not very successful in focusing correctly at f1.4. So I will sell the Lux once used markets recover. 

[Peter H]

I sold my Lux to help fund a new APO a couple of months ago, and I've never been happier. 

Whilst the Lux is a lovely lens, and until now I"ve never been without one over several decades, there's not a thing I now miss about it and there's so much I love about the APO.

The rendering and smooth natural feel of the bokeh are perfect for me. I never want bokeh to be a feature of a photo, so I love that it just politely fades in a way that feels completely unobtrusive, yet lovely to look at if you do find your eye wandering.

I also love its small size, super-easy focussing including very close-to, lack of any aberrations that I've spotted, and the hood makes me smile!

Edited May 31 by Peter H