X2D destroyed my love to modern Leica-Advise on lens lineup

[Uwiik]

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16 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

Your dealer is not your friend ... just think how large and impractical that 75 Noct will be. Also very modern looking, as is the 50/0.95 Noctilux. These big lenses do not sell quickly and have terrible residuals once you realise they are not for you. Dealers have the 75/1.25 and 90/1.5 stuck on their shelves for years.

Just be happy with the 50mm Summilux v3.

Are you saying that 60/0.95 Noctilux is also somewhat modern rendered? Like I said I have never tested it but from what I have been reading the 50/0.95 is sharper than say 50/1.2 but far from modern rendered, the 75/1.25 I read can be like that for some people but definitely not the 50/0.95? 

I am very happy with my 50 V3, my favorite in fact, but I just adore my 50/1.2 Nocti hence the desire for another Noctilux… 

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[Stuart Richardson]

I am sorry, but I have to back up Paul. That is a ridiculous amount of gear. I agree that adding more or shifting it around is really not going to serve your photography very much. I think there is something to be said for trying different things to get a feel for them, but this is a bit much. If you like the X2D, stick with that. I would advise, in addition to taking photographs, to go to photographic exhibitions at museums and galleries and get some books by the photographers you are drawn to. If one has money, it can be trivial to buy new gear, but it is never trivial to acquire new knowledge and experience. It takes some effort, but in the long run it is going to benefit you. The only reason I say this is that I have worked for twenty years as a technician -- printing exhibitions for other artists, being very obsessed with technique and gear, but I learned most from looking at the art I was printing. Ultimately I did an MFA in my late thirties to early forties, and I learned more about photography from the MFA than I did in a decade previous. That was primarily learning about the history of photography, looking at hundreds or thousands of different photographers' work, having rigorous critique, and meeting practicing artists. You don't need to do a degree to learn this (it does help), but the gear is just a means to an end. Anyway, just a thought.

Edited May 4 by Stuart Richardson

[andybarton]

29 minutes ago, Uwiik said:

I never ever tried a 50 0.95 but I absolutely love what I am seeing on my 50 1.2 Nocti, I just adore it from day one, perfect size even for EDC and I will not sell it. 

I doubt that you REALLY need both. 

Your GAS is in danger of taking over your life. 

[Uwiik]

3 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Even in those days Jakarta was somewhere to be avoided! I was fortunate that most of my work (water resources) took me to the countryside. I can still remember walking across the hills east of Yogyakarta listening to the distant sounds of a gamelan band playing for a village wedding.

I remember during those days becak (rickshaw) are still everywhere in Jakarta, absolutely fantastic photo ops those little becak… Very cultured, unfortunately doesn’t fit with the modern progression the majority are always shooting for… 

I was born in Malang, a small town 2 hrs away from Surabaya, my dad is from Yogyakarta, my mom was from Semarang. I spent a lot of time in Malang, Bali, Jakarta and lately Vancouver. One of the reason of my second home in Vancouver is the steep decline of Indonesia as a country, what you experienced and saw decades ago is a distant memory now, very saddened by this fact… I can only recall those sweet memories from when Indonesia was still cultured, now it is slowly but surely being replaced by religious zealots trying to erase any trace of ancient culture that we used to cherish and its not cute.

 

 

[LocalHero1953]

Yes, I'm sure I would be saddened, although as a foreigner I didn't have to experience the poverty of so many. It's a pity that we lose so much of value even as we gain (some) other benefits from economic development.

On a visit to Jakarta from Yogyakarta I went to buy a Pentax 135mm lens (I had just bought a Pentax MX), and took a taxi back to the airport, where my wife was waiting with my bags. The taxi ran out of petrol, and I had to take a becak the rest of the way. I arrived just as they closed the gates - I ran through the terminal from entrance to plane door without stopping. One couldn't do that now!

[Steve Ash]

If you really want to have a 75 the Summilux is a wonderful choice. I own the V1 for myself. It is dreamy at 1.4 and razor sharp at 4.0. I like it so much that I once considered to by a spare one to be on the safe side. I shared some of the shots with this lens here in the lens section.

[Uwiik]

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35 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

I am sorry, but I have to back up Paul. That is a ridiculous amount of gear. I agree that adding more or shifting it around is really not going to serve your photography very much. I think there is something to be said for trying different things to get a feel for them, but this is a bit much. If you like the X2D, stick with that. I would advise, in addition to taking photographs, to go to photographic exhibitions at museums and galleries and get some books by the photographers you are drawn to. If one has money, it can be trivial to buy new gear, but it is never trivial to acquire new knowledge and experience. It takes some effort, but in the long run it is going to benefit you. The only reason I say this is that I have worked for twenty years as a technician -- printing exhibitions for other artists, being very obsessed with technique and gear, but I learned most from looking at the art I was printing. Ultimately I did an MFA in my late thirties to early forties, and I learned more about photography from the MFA than I did in a decade previous. That was primarily learning about the history of photography, looking at hundreds or thousands of different photographers' work, having rigorous critique, and meeting practicing artists. You don't need to do a degree to learn this (it does help), but the gear is just a means to an end. Anyway, just a thought.

No apology needed, I like this forum already! Injecting some sense into me…Thanks! Much appreciated! I do realize that and actually coming down to sense is exactly what I am trying to do, maybe I haven’t explained my situations, my apology… I did realize about a week ago that this is getting a bit much, fortunately I also came to realization what I enjoy most about my Leica and what I enjoy about my X2D (I enjoy the Leica more FYI), so I need to slim down on my Leica lens collection. I have found my enjoyment in term of what lenses and I want to get rid of my 35 FLE2, 50 FLE2, 21 Summilux, 70 APO with one of the lens I mentioned above.

Thanks for advices folks! 

Edited May 4 by Uwiik

[LocalHero1953]

1 minute ago, Steve Ash said:

If you really want to have a 75 the Summilux is a wonderful choice. I own the V1 for myself. It is dreamy at 1.4 and razor sharp at 4.0. I like it so much that I once considered to by a spare one to be on the safe side. I shared some of the shots with this lens here in the lens section.

I agree - it is my preferred lens for portraits (though I use the Sigma 85/1.4 on the SL for autofocus if I'm in a hurry). A truly lovely lens for this purpose. And, much though I lust after a Noctilux 75, I am not convinced it would give me anything I would like better.

[FrozenInTime]

25 minutes ago, Uwiik said:

Are you saying that 60/0.95 Noctilux is also somewhat modern rendered? Like I said I have never tested it but from what I have been reading the 50/0.95 is sharper than say 50/1.2 but far from modern rendered, the 75/1.25 I read can be like that for some people but definitely not the 50/0.95? 

I am very happy with my 50 V3, my favorite in fact, but I just adore my 50/1.2 Nocti hence the desire for another Noctilux… 

Have a look here for examples https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297666-show-us-your-noctilux-wide-open-shots/ I think I posted a few there, but not recently ... it only gets out on specific occasions.

[Uwiik]

20 minutes ago, LocalHero1953 said:

Yes, I'm sure I would be saddened, although as a foreigner I didn't have to experience the poverty of so many. It's a pity that we lose so much of value even as we gain (some) other benefits from economic development.

On a visit to Jakarta from Yogyakarta I went to buy a Pentax 135mm lens (I had just bought a Pentax MX), and took a taxi back to the airport, where my wife was waiting with my bags. The taxi ran out of petrol, and I had to take a becak the rest of the way. I arrived just as they closed the gates - I ran through the terminal from entrance to plane door without stopping. One couldn't do that now!

The poverty is worse now and all hidden behind the glitzy development, yes they can eat fancy food from the West, they can wear fancy branded clothing, they can afford to buy a small car but massive majority of them don’t even own anything, government define middle class as someone who spend more than $200/month!!! What peanuts you can buy with that?…… I still remember back in the day, even with rampant poverty owning a small house is easy as long as you have a steady job, even the house will be much lower standard that you would see in the West it is still a house…. Nowadays one would never be able to own a house even with steady job unless one is at upper managerial level in a good company, and that would be a very small house where you constantly bump your knee and temple… I am fortunate to be able to make it good here but it pains me to see the quality of live for most people here, a lot of people only live up to 55-65, most of them die young!

One thing is unique about this country, despite the hardship the people are so genuinely nice and caring towards each other…had it not for the people which I love very much and can still contribute to their economy I would’ve moved everything and left the country to not go back long ago… 

Edited May 4 by Uwiik

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Uwiik:

Been waiting for this answer… I had a sense that IF (a big IF) one day suddenly something strike me and I suddenly preach 75 mm, there is a slight chance I prefer 75 Summilux than 75 Nocti based on what I have been reading… But everyone keep on claiming what a perfect lens 75 Nocti is and everyone keep on saying that something finally beat the god of them all 50 0.95 Nocti…. Cannot help but turning my head can’t I? But yes, I wonder if the 75 Nocti is too perfect for its own good making it not so ‘Noctilux’ anymore?

The Noctilux-M 75/1.25 is one of the best lenses, Leica ever made but together with the 90mm Summilux it demonstrates the limits of rangefinder technology and - in my opinion - either requires the Visoflex 2 (or the rumored EVF-M) or could be adapted to another system (Leica SL series, Sony, Nikon). On these systems it is much better balanced and can be used with AF (on Sony and Nikon) for a much better hit rate as you can see here: : https://3d-kraft.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206&catid=40&Itemid=2

Despite its perfection, the Noctilux 75 still has its own character and signature. I would not buy the Summilux 75 because there seem to be a lot of problems with focus accuracy. If you find that f/1.4 is enough on a 75mm lens, you can get a much better, more compact and cheaper option with the Thypoch Simera 75/1.4.

My recommendation would be, to borrow the Noctilux 75 for some days from your dealer. After that, you'll be able to decide, if it is right for you, much better. Just out of curiosity - what price does the dealer want for the used Noctilux 75?

Regarding the 50mm Noctiluxes: I like the 50/1.0 the most.

Edited May 4 by 3D-Kraft.com

[jaapv]

Word, words words. Just slap any lens on any camera body, get out there and start taking photographs. Photography is not about agonizing about what gear to fill your house with. It is about being somewhere, observing , seeing a scene and capturing it with whatever you have with you. It is utterly irrelevant whether it is a view camera or a smartphone. Content counts, not gear. 
 

The best remedy is the oldest one: lock everything away but one camera and one lens, for one month and set yourself the goal to take ten photographs a day and not one more. Quantity does not equal quality    Then do the same with a radically different combo for the next month. And again for a third month. Afterwards you will know who you are photographically, what ( little) gear you need you can sell the rest and finally start enjoying your hobby instead of sitting in a room going through drawers and boxes of dusty gear interspersed with shooting anything that moves in the hope that 1% comes out decently 
 

[Uwiik]

25 minutes ago, FrozenInTime said:

Have a look here for examples https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/297666-show-us-your-noctilux-wide-open-shots/ I think I posted a few there, but not recently ... it only gets out on specific occasions.

Thanks for this, will spend some time deciding based on this thread..

[Viv]

2 hours ago, Uwiik said:

Hi all, 

I got married in 2009 and soon found myself unable to afford the hobby anymore after shooting on and off since Nikon F70 days. Was a broke husband with three kids had to quit the hobby at around 2012-2013 during the Nikon D800 (my last camera) era and was deep into underwater photography at the time, broke my heart when a then novice diver neighbor hauled off my super trusty 4” Pelican case with everything in it for $4000

About 3 months ago I reconciled with photography hobby after a very long hiatus, apparently it came back with a loud bang! Started with Sony A1MK2 and all GMII lenses from 14mm up to 200mm which I immediately neglected exactly 7 days after nuptial for a new mistress called Leica M11-P, then soon followed by a mint Leica ‘sharkskin’ MP BP with Leicavit, debauchery after debaucheries so it seems, it was like a revenge relapse. Decided to get rid of the Sony A1MK2 setup with less than 2000 SC for a Hasselblad X2D with 80mm XCD to accompany the Leicas. Off course I was dumbfounded by the perfection of the X2D, it was so perfect yet so alive making Leica’s modern rendering looks dead, had to seriously did a sit down and performed some soul searching asking myself if I really want to go down further into that rabbit hole? Fortunately was able to find the answer and found myself still favoring the overall analog feeling, simplicity and characteristics of Leica but found myself strongly disagreeing with modern render on anything Leica. IMO modern rendering on Leica is dead compared to the fantastic X2D, but on classic characteristics that you can tune to create artsy works Leica is incomparable and X2D is dead on that department, it is best to own both system so it seems.

I never touch my 21mm Summilux nor 70 APO,  almost never touch my 35 & 50 Summilux FLE II too dead to my liking and I found myself gravitate heavily towards my 35 Steel Rim Re Issue which been modified to close focusing myself (thanks to Yukosteel), using 50mm Noctilux F1.2 re issue very regularly as I am hooked into boudoir photography with my loving wife as the model, IMO this lens is super flattering for boudoir. Lastly the lens I enjoy the most right now for EDC is Titanium 50mm Summilux Pre-ASPH V3, had brought home and tested a few brass bodied/ringed Leica Lenses (thanks to my fantastic dealer) and IMO this Summilux 50 V3 Titanium version posses the best built quality of them all, snappiest firmest ap ring, smoothest fc ring with IQ to match, not too heavy to be a burden, not too light to feel cheap, an absolute joy to carry and use I giggled for two days after acquiring this lens, not to mention its 0.7m MFD IMO just right for 50mm… 

I see and compose the best at 50mm, so naturally wanted to  expand the most on that size. Initially was set on adding 50 APO to the arsenal but since I began to dislike ( really not like it at all) Leica modern rendering, perhaps I better spend the money on Nocti 50mm 0.95? But my fantastic dealer said that 35/50 APO may look too ‘dead’ on color but it would look absolutely jaw dropping on B&W and I wouldn’t want to miss it? Problem is there is no used 35/50 APO locally so I cannot just bring home one to try… He also advised to give Nocti 75mm 1.25 a try as he strongly favor Nocti 75 1.25 compared to Nocti 50 0.95, he said once I tried Nocti 75 I will force myself to use 75 and will not regret it? He’s got a used Nocti 75 I can bring home and try but currently no Nocti 50 0.95 that I can try and I never tried any of the said lenses that I am contemplating. Help me with my sickness please… 

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I understand completely.

The X2D is really special, the way it renders colour.

[Viv]

5 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Word, words words. Just slap any lens on any camera body, get out there and start taking photographs. Photography is not about agonizing about what gear to fill your house with. It is about being somewhere, observing , seeing a scene and capturing it with whatever you have with you. It is utterly irrelevant whether it is a view camera or a smartphone. Content counts, not gear. 
 

True dat.

[Uwiik]

8 minutes ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

The Noctilux-M 75/1.25 is one of the best lenses, Leica ever made but together with the 90mm Summilux it demonstrates the limits of rangefinder technology and - in my opinion - either requires the Visoflex 2 (or the rumored EVF-M) or could be adapted to another system (Leica SL series, Sony, Nikon). On these systems it is much better balanced and can be used with AF for a much better hit rate as you can see here: : https://3d-kraft.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=206&catid=40&Itemid=2

Despite its perfection, the Noctilux 75 still has its own character and signature. I would not buy the Summilux 75 because there seems to be a lot of problem with focus accuracy. If you find that f/1.4 is enough on a 75mm lens, you can get a much better, more compact and cheaper option with the Thypoch Simera 75/1.4.

My recommendation would be, to borrow the Noctilux 75 for some days from your dealer. After that, you'll be able to decide, if it is right for you, much better. Just out of curiosity - what price does the dealer want for the used Noctilux 75?

Regarding the 50mm Noctiluxes: I like the 50/1.0 the most.

Around $6800 give and take a few for exchange rate…as new condition… I want to borrow it only after I decide if I can live with it or not, then test it out to confirm, my way of thinking anyway…

[Viv]

With all due respect, you have too much gear.
Simplify your life, just make great  photos.

[Uwiik]

17 minutes ago, jaapv said:

Word, words words. Just slap any lens on any camera body, get out there and start taking photographs. Photography is not about agonizing about what gear to fill your house with. It is about being somewhere, observing , seeing a scene and capturing it with whatever you have with you. It is utterly irrelevant whether it is a view camera or a smartphone. Content counts, not gear. 
 

Understood and doing it when I have the opportunity. Last month I did 5500 frames in a month and produced 225 worthy of keeping and improving. A bit stranded right now so mostly doing very limited dark indoor photos due to circumstances explained above. Everyone situation is different I suppose. 

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[Viv]

2 minutes ago, Uwiik said:

Understood and doing it when I have the opportunity. Last month I did 5500 frames in a month and produced 225 worthy of keeping and improving. A bit stranded right now so mostly doing very limited dark indoor photos due to circumstances explained above. Everyone situation is different I suppose. 

Wow, that keeper ratio is very poor.

On a typical day, I might take five shots and keep one or two.

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Uwiik:

The whole house is controlled at 45%, me myself cannot stand the humidity here, normally 75-88% day in day out… 

 

vor 1 Stunde schrieb andybarton:

Excellent advice. 
 

Don’t forget to buy a big dehumidifier storage cabinet to keep all your new kit. 

I took my D800 with 4 top class lenses around the world, but mostly Costa Rica (where i lived for 12 years 6 months) and Panama.
the first lens who developed lens fungus after 6 months was a Thailand made cheap Nikon zoom lens and Nikon replaced it after some discussions.
Subsequently all other lenses got infected what may be coming from the cheap lens or just because the humidity there, my guess is the cheap lens.
After this experience i bought a dry cabinet from Adorama and had it shipped to Costa Rica and same problem did not happen again on my Q2 i had there 2010-2023, but not 6 months per year.

My house had no AirCon (just bedroom for a good sleep) as i am used to hot and humid and had a scuba and a fishing company so i was all day out on the sea and i never expose my cameras to rain, i am rather pick with that.

@UwiikI strongly suggest to get a dry cabinet or make one room with upgraded aircon in dehumification mode as dry storage to protect the investment and never leave your camera gear inside a bag, thake all out and put it with a bit of distance on shelfs

Chris

Edited May 4 by PhotoCruiser