Leica M11 - Lightroom and Mac Mini M4

[CaZpeR]

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After buying a Leica M11 I realize that my base M1 Mac Mini (8GB RAM, 8C CPU and 8C GPU) is struggling with the large RAW-files in Lightroom. Everything takes ages to load when I put my files in and doing adjustments lag a lot.

I was thinking of maybe opting to buy a base Mac Mini M4 (16GB RAM, 10C CPU and 10C GPU). Does anyone have any experience with Lightroom, M11 RAW-files and the base Mac Mini M4?

I will most likely buy the non-OEM SSD-upgrade as well giving me a bit faster SSD-speed as well on this computer.

[Derbyshire Man]

I've got an M1 MacBook pro and a mac studio m2 ultra 24 core, which flies through processing images (having said that it still takes about 5s to render from an embedded image) but then is much much slower at opening silver efex for some reason that I cannot fathom. I'm not convinced you'll see very much difference in those two but hopefully someone with some actual experience will come in.

[CaZpeR]

16 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I've got an M1 MacBook pro and a mac studio m2 ultra 24 core, which flies through processing images (having said that it still takes about 5s to render from an embedded image) but then is much much slower at opening silver efex for some reason that I cannot fathom. I'm not convinced you'll see very much difference in those two but hopefully someone with some actual experience will come in.

Which CPU do you have in your Macbook Pro? M1, M1 Pro or M1 Max? If you have M1 base then it shouldn't be different from my computer. I can see that M2 Ultra is flying through the files. That CPU is a beast!

[PhotoCruiser]

I had from M1 to M3 Pro or Max Macbook's and there was not a huge difference in speed as long memory was enough and not saturated.
Slow loading of the images seems to me insufficient memory, 8GB is simply not enough if other apps are open, particularly Safari.
You may do a test restart your MM M1 without any other software running to see if something changes.
Start and check frequentlythe Memory and CPU values in the Apple Activity App, look there for cached memory and particularly for swapped memory.
If there is any swapped memory you found the culprit, but v^can not solve it as the RAM / Unified Memory is not upgradable.

Another solution would be to do a factory reset of your MM, install first MacOS and then strictly only the software you use, that can do wonders in many cases. DO NOT use cloud or any backup for reinstalling as you will download a lot of undesired/old stuff, download and install the software you need thru Apple or from company website to do a full reset from scratch.

I consider 16GB of Memory still as insufficient for working with libraries containing a lot of photos, for a computer doing that i would recommend 32GB.
To save some money you can use slower processors and in particular a 512 or 1TB SSD and work with external storage as Apple SSD memory is crazy expensive.
What you would feel with a less core processor is that denoising, PS filters or similar intensive tasks will take a tad longer, but only a tad.
Keep in mind that the best speed upgrade is to have enough memory to hold the software and their data in memory and not swap it back and forth as swapping is a terrible speed killer.

Chris

 

Edited March 24 by PhotoCruiser

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb CaZpeR:

I will most likely buy the non-OEM SSD-upgrade as well giving me a bit faster SSD-speed as well on this computer.

Ha have several M2 SSD housings, most with Thunderbolt and then buy the best but affordable M2 SSD and install it inside.
I just bought a 8TB WD Black M2 SSD chip and a M2 housing and use it for my photos and everyday data.
There where some problems with the orange-grey SanDisk SSD, do a search for what exactly the problem was and if it's solved now.
Apple User Forum is often a good source for such informations.

Use a backup software to regularly copy the SSD to one or two traditional hard disk for backup purposes even if modern SSD's are reliable.
I have used many SSD's for about 10 years in my laptops and never had failures, most of them where the credit card sized Samsung SSD and for external SSD's WD Black.

Chris

[CaZpeR]

2 minutes ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Ha have several M2 SSD housings, most with Thunderbolt and then buy the best but affordable M2 SSD and install it inside.
I just bought a 8TB WD Black M2 SSD chip and a M2 housing and use it for my photos and everyday data.
There where some problems with the orange-grey SanDisk SSD, do a search for what exactly the problem was and if it's solved now.
Apple User Forum is often a good source for such informations.

Use a backup software to regularly copy the SSD to one or two traditional hard disk for backup purposes even if modern SSD's are reliable.
I have used many SSD's for about 10 years in my laptops and never had failures, most of them where the credit card sized Samsung SSD and for external SSD's WD Black.

Chris

Yeah, I was thinking about upgrading the internal SSD on the M4 Mini (if I pull the trigger on one). Just buy the base model (as I will be doubling the RAM compared to my M1 Mini) and the base SSD and upgrade it myself. There is options there and costs a fraction of what Apple is charging ($320 for 2TB SSD upgrade for instance - https://expandmacmini.com/). I also have a 2TB external SSD I will be using as well (Samsung SSD that I've been using with my M1 Mini). 

I am thinking of getting a bigger drive to archive some of my old work. But this can be a HDD as I won't be editing them any further. But that is a completely different topic.

[pedaes]

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2 hours ago, CaZpeR said:

non-OEM SSD

I have a Mac Mini Pro and all LrC files on an external SSD (plus another as a local backup configured through TimeMachine). Cheapest option. Very fast processing, including LrC new AI tools, Topaz AI etc.

[M11 for me]

That is bad news. Unfortunately your memory size is never enough (it was said above). I think that even 32 (I user 32 GB) are not enough under the condition that you have other apps open besides Lightroom Classic (I have most times mail, calendar, contacts, safari and Excel open besides LR). In this case 32GB are not enough but it still work but the system starts to swap.

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb CaZpeR:

There is options there and costs a fraction of what Apple is charging ($320 for 2TB SSD upgrade for instance

Well, if the MM is 3rd party upgradable then that would be a solution, but i would prefer to not tamper with it.
I have my most used documents, the iPhone Mediathek, Mp3 files, etc on my 1TB SSD and she is half full.
As my photos and videos occupy about 6TB they would not fit in any case on a internal SSD so for me more than 1TB is a waste of money and unused space.

vor 2 Stunden schrieb M11 for me:

In this case 32GB are not enough but it still work but the system starts to swap.

I find it interesting as my M3 MBP with 32GB does almost never swap, not even if i open the catalog with all my approx 80K mostly RAW photos.
I ditched Safari for ARC as Safari does not dump the memory after scrolling for a long time in f.e. Facebook and can use easily 4GB+ and ARC seems to have a considerable better memory management.
I have always running
CleanMyMac
AlDente
BitDefender Antivirus
Password Manager
Airmail
Whatsapp
Threema
Creative Cloud app

But as i wrote you are right that more memory is always better, it's just a question how much one is willing to fork out.
In case of the Mac Mini there is no factory option for the M4 with more than 32GB memory and full optional 32GB 1TB fastest 10-10-16 processor price is 1699 what is certainly a bargain.

The most expensive MM with M4 Pro 14-20-16, 64GB memory and 1TB SSD is 2949 what is not really a bargain anymore.

Chris
 

Edited March 24 by PhotoCruiser

[S Maclean]

i have the m4 max macbook pro and it works really well. Not sure what the configuration is on the mac mini though, you have to have enough memory (I have 128 gb)

 

[marchyman]

10 hours ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Slow loading of the images seems to me insufficient memory, 8GB is simply not enough if other apps are open, particularly Safari.

That would be my guess, too.  It's easy enough to find out.

1. Open a terminal window.
2. Enter the command vm_stat and hit enter.
3. about 2 dozen lines will be written to the terminal.  Look at the last 3 lines.
4. quite the terminal app

If "Pageouts:" is not zero your machine is taking time to write "dirty" memory to disk to make room.  When that content is needed access will be delayed while the os takes time to read the data back into memory, perhaps having to write out other bits of memory, first.  If this happens too often the os can spend more time making room than it does doing your work.  Note:  Pageins is how the os gets programs into memory.  Do not be concerned about a big number.

Ideally Swapins and Swapouts will also be zero.  A swap occurs when the OS determines it needs enough memory that it will write all the memory of some process to a swap file. That may show up as taking a very long time to switch between apps.

Anyway, if the problem is indeed not enough memory there isn't much you can do save buy a machine with more.

[Derbyshire Man]

12 hours ago, CaZpeR said:

Which CPU do you have in your Macbook Pro? M1, M1 Pro or M1 Max? If you have M1 base then it shouldn't be different from my computer. I can see that M2 Ultra is flying through the files. That CPU is a beast!

Just a plain 8 core M1, oddly though it's much quicker to open sliver efex from LR. It echoes PhotoCruisers post, it's essential to start from scratch and I didn't when I set up my mac studio. At some point I'm going to need to bite the bullet and do that!

Edited March 24 by Derbyshire Man

[JTLeica]

So I have used all sorts of apple silicon macs. Everything was ‘fine’ apart from an M1 iMac with 8gb of RAM. In 2025 with adobe programmes taking a sizeable chunk of memory to work well, 8tb is near useless, especially taking into account high res images.

16gb is still not ideal and if you can stretch to a 24gb machine and get even get to 1tb storage, allowing for a larger ligation cache file without taking too much space up, that would be a great little machine.

I have an M4 iPad that flies through Leica 60mp files with 16gb ram. But that’s iOS and it’s a tighter more efficient OS.

I feel you’d be fine with 16, but, if it were me I would spend a bit more and get 24 and slightly more storage just to be safe. You wI’ll definitely see a massive improvement over 8gb m1, though.

13 hours ago, CaZpeR said:

After buying a Leica M11 I realize that my base M1 Mac Mini (8GB RAM, 8C CPU and 8C GPU) is struggling with the large RAW-files in Lightroom. Everything takes ages to load when I put my files in and doing adjustments lag a lot.

I was thinking of maybe opting to buy a base Mac Mini M4 (16GB RAM, 10C CPU and 10C GPU). Does anyone have any experience with Lightroom, M11 RAW-files and the base Mac Mini M4?

I will most likely buy the non-OEM SSD-upgrade as well giving me a bit faster SSD-speed as well on this computer.

 

[JTLeica]

9 hours ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Well, if the MM is 3rd party upgradable then that would be a solution, but i would prefer to not tamper with it.
I have my most used documents, the iPhone Mediathek, Mp3 files, etc on my 1TB SSD and she is half full.
As my photos and videos occupy about 6TB they would not fit in any case on a internal SSD so for me more than 1TB is a waste of money and unused space.

I find it interesting as my M3 MBP with 32GB does almost never swap, not even if i open the catalog with all my approx 80K mostly RAW photos.
I ditched Safari for ARC as Safari does not dump the memory after scrolling for a long time in f.e. Facebook and can use easily 4GB+ and ARC seems to have a considerable better memory management.
I have always running
CleanMyMac
AlDente
BitDefender Antivirus
Password Manager
Airmail
Whatsapp
Threema
Creative Cloud app

But as i wrote you are right that more memory is always better, it's just a question how much one is willing to fork out.
In case of the Mac Mini there is no factory option for the M4 with more than 32GB memory and full optional 32GB 1TB fastest 10-10-16 processor price is 1699 what is certainly a bargain.

The most expensive MM with M4 Pro 14-20-16, 64GB memory and 1TB SSD is 2949 what is not really a bargain anymore.

Chris
 

Yeah the memory thing is a funny one. There’s an optimal level which I think is around 32-48gb, where the performance really flies with lightroom and photoshop and swap is almost never used and memory pressure is almost always green. But then you move to 64, and 128 and the same tasks going at roughly the same speed seem to take up more memory. Software with the Mac seems to just ‘take it’ even if it’s not improving performance. It just appears to be being used but really isn’t having an impact. 
 

That’s until you do a short high intensity task like creating large panorama or HDR panorama and the the increase in memory comes into its own. But, those tasks aren’t generally done that often

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb marchyman:

• Open a terminal window.
• Enter the command vm_stat and hit enter.
• about 2 dozen lines will be written to the terminal.  Look at the last 3 lines.
• quite the terminal app

Can you explain why you suggest to use the terminal app instead of the Activity app (or what its called in English) what is much easier to understand?

 

@CaZpeR 
If you want to save some money you may do a search for a top notch M3 Mac Mini, they should be sold with a considerable? Discount now.
From the reviews i was reading it seems that the speed advantage of the same M4 over the same M3 is measurable but in real life near to zero.
Lightroom is not a very demanding app, it demands memory to hold the photos or their previews in memory but the editing is not that processor/time consuming and Denoise for example would take a second or two longer to finish.
Things change if you use Photoshop with it's advanced filters and many layers or have other software running what need processor power.

Chris

[marchyman]

9 hours ago, PhotoCruiser said:

Can you explain why you suggest to use the terminal app instead of the Activity app (or what its called in English) what is much easier to understand?

Sure... I am an old computer/software guy who always has a terminal window (or two or three) open.  Without touching the mouse I can switch to a terminal window, type the command, then switch back to whatever I was doing.  For me it's faster. It's also more familiar in that I've been doing it that way for decades.  Lastly, I didn't know the activity app could show that info.

I just looked and do not see the info when the Memory tab is selected.  Oh... I'd have to run the app.  Click on the info button. Click one more time on the Statistics selection tab. Then I can see the pageins/pageouts.  I learned something, thank you.  I'll still be using the terminal.

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 17 Stunden schrieb marchyman:

Sure... I am an old computer/software guy who always has a terminal window (or two or three) open.  Without touching the mouse I can switch to a terminal window, type the command, then switch back to whatever I was doing.  For me it's faster. It's also more familiar in that I've been doing it that way for decades.  Lastly, I didn't know the activity app could show that info.

Thanks for the explanation and with your knowledge it makes sense.
I am a old school C64, Dos and Windows user and used to use the terminal (or similar Apps) as well, but from windows and now Mac on i use the graphical interface like the Activity App and find it better and have it always running to see what my machines are doing.

Chris

[CaZpeR]

On 3/25/2025 at 9:33 AM, PhotoCruiser said:

@CaZpeR 
If you want to save some money you may do a search for a top notch M3 Mac Mini, they should be sold with a considerable? Discount now.
From the reviews i was reading it seems that the speed advantage of the same M4 over the same M3 is measurable but in real life near to zero.
Lightroom is not a very demanding app, it demands memory to hold the photos or their previews in memory but the editing is not that processor/time consuming and Denoise for example would take a second or two longer to finish.
Things change if you use Photoshop with it's advanced filters and many layers or have other software running what need processor power.

Chris

It have to be a top notch M2 Mac Mini. As far as I know M3 never made it to the Mac Mini lineup. The top notch previous gen Mac Mini would be a Mac Mini with M2 Pro chip. I have looked at the used market here in Norway and there is almost none with 32GB of RAM. And even the ones with 16GB is quite pricey even for used ones 😕 I might as well shell out for a new M4 with a bit more memory than the base version.

Edited March 29 by CaZpeR

[PhotoCruiser]

vor 11 Stunden schrieb CaZpeR:

I might as well shell out for a new M4 with a bit more memory than the base version.

Check also in Norways online electronic dealers, Amazon, etc, or opt for a by Apple refurbished one, if the extra money is not a issue then buy directly from Apple.
If you have a lot of fotos and used to have other programs open then i suggest not less than 32GB or 48GB on a M4 Pro.

Yes top noch can be difficult to find as they are specialized machines and yes you are right, no M3 MM.

Chris

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[Nick Lo]

Don't get the regular  Mac mini M4. Get the Mac mini  M4 Pro with 48GB RAM and  512GB or 1TB SSD for $2000 or less. You can always add an external TB5 external SSD drive later for around 6kMB/s read/write speed.