bsmith Posted January 22 Share #21 Posted January 22 Advertisement (gone after registration) On 1/21/2025 at 4:34 AM, Kim Dahl said: I can confirm that the Q343 (and the same with the Q328) does not have good AF. It works fine with single focus and non-moving subjects. The face recognition - it switches between person to person if there are several people. It does not lock. If it is one person, it switches between one eye and the other. So the finished result may as well be the eye furthest from the camera. That the eye closest to the lens should be sharp is a classic portrait rule. I really hope the firmware can improve it. I actually think it is the Q3's biggest flaw. So dear Leica focus on AF focus. ☺️📷 I can confirm that the Q43 has remarkably good AFC. I use it at basketball games, concerts every week and it rarely misses! Players running full speed, flying through the air, artists running around the stage in low light etc. Use AFC “field square” focus mark in the viewfinder. (All the other AFC modes tracking, face , etc. are amateur gimmicks.) Just follow your subject and press the shutter when you see your “ moment” . Even with all the technical advancements, good photography is still a craft. If you rely on “ spray and pray” 20-30 fps photography, Leica is probably not your best choice. 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 22 Posted January 22 Hi bsmith, Take a look here SL3-S: is the AF ability to track subjects in busy scenes improved?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
costa43 Posted January 22 Share #22 Posted January 22 (edited) Judging by the reviews, the SL3s definitely seems like the best auto focusing camera that Leica has ever offered. The problem I find with all these tracking modes though is if they are not amazing and nail it almost every time then it’s just not worth using them at all, inevitably I will end up in single point with a focus and recompose scenario that any camera made in the last 10 years can do pretty well. Edited January 22 by costa43 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 23 Share #23 Posted January 23 My question is, do you still see improved AF in AFs shooting SL3s or is it the same contrast-based AF like the SL3? in that case we are still in the same performance of SL2, and the marketing material is just fooling you, and me that i got the SL3? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 23 Share #24 Posted January 23 4 hours ago, Photoworks said: My question is, do you still see improved AF in AFs shooting SL3s or is it the same contrast-based AF like the SL3? in that case we are still in the same performance of SL2, and the marketing material is just fooling you, and me that i got the SL3? https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2025/01/leica-sl3-s-24mp-bsi-sensor-6k-open-gate-advanced-af-handheld-96mp-mutlishot-content-credentials/ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418707-sl3-s-is-the-af-ability-to-track-subjects-in-busy-scenes-improved/?do=findComment&comment=5745379'>More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted January 23 Author Share #25 Posted January 23 1 hour ago, jaapv said: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2025/01/leica-sl3-s-24mp-bsi-sensor-6k-open-gate-advanced-af-handheld-96mp-mutlishot-content-credentials/ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Trying to bring us back to the topic, not sure all of these points are relevant to the question unless this means that e.g. at ISO 200.000 it can track a selected subject in a busy scene. Frankly, I doubt it (my SL2-S really starts dropping the AF ball at ISO 6400 also in moving target pattern recognition modes with simpler challenges than busy moving scenes) but maybe someone has data to support it is working way beyond ISO 6400 now. The individual SL3-S claims/features are impressive, the question is what you can do with it and how this all works together to achieve great AF performance in challenging situations, specifically, busy moving scenes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jyrkialanen Posted January 23 Share #26 Posted January 23 On 1/22/2025 at 9:10 PM, bsmith said: I can confirm that the Q43 has remarkably good AFC. I use it at basketball games, concerts every week and it rarely misses! Players running full speed, flying through the air, artists running around the stage in low light etc. Use AFC “field square” focus mark in the viewfinder. (All the other AFC modes tracking, face , etc. are amateur gimmicks.) Just follow your subject and press the shutter when you see your “ moment” . Even with all the technical advancements, good photography is still a craft. If you rely on “ spray and pray” 20-30 fps photography, Leica is probably not your best choice. It's nice to know that you enjoy your Q3 but let's not forget the facts, shall we. First, Leica Q43 AFC is not even at the same ball park compared to Canon, Nikon and Sony offerings. Second, face and eye detection are anything but "amateur gimmicks" when they actually work, unfortunately that's not the case with Leica offerings. Third, with a good pro sports camera it's not "spray and pray". With good tracking you will have 20 to 30 perfectly focused frames per second to choose from, even at fast action scenarios. No working pro would rely to your "see the moment" strategy when shooting fast action. I'm not a pro, but when I'm shooting my whippets running towards me over 50km/h "pressing shutter when I see my moment" would get me zero results. Instead I shoot with a camera which is capable of 30 fps with no viewfinder blackout and with animal eye af which sticks to the dog's eye the whole run. Choosing the best available tool and using the best available tegnology to get the shot is part of the craft too, not an amateur gimmick as you suggest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsmith Posted January 24 Share #27 Posted January 24 Advertisement (gone after registration) We shall…. you said it all “ = “I’m not a Pro” Sports history has hundreds of thousands of outstanding sports action photographs before the Sony spray and pray crowd existed. Look at 60’s 70’s Sports Illustrated photos. I shoot single or 2-3 frames per second at NBA and NHL games 5 times a week and I’d be happy to compare my “take” with your machine gun style. One can also kill more deers with a machine gun than a bow or rifle too! But good hunters wait for their shot. Craft. you don’t understand “craft” it means talent. Leica Q43 is not a dedicated sports camera, but it can handle action photography in street or sports in the right hands it focuses the first few frames accurately and consistently as fast as any camera. Happy spraying 😊 I Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Photoworks Posted January 24 Share #28 Posted January 24 6 hours ago, jaapv said: https://www.reddotforum.com/content/2025/01/leica-sl3-s-24mp-bsi-sensor-6k-open-gate-advanced-af-handheld-96mp-mutlishot-content-credentials/ Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! this replay is marketing, reality with Leica is often different. On the SL3, they carefully worded PDAF with the new sensor. and never said anything about how it works. What you get in reality is disappointing, if not a fraudulent omission. On the SL3 AFs only uses Contrast, the same as the SL2, no less no more. No words from Leica! Only AFC PDAF is used, is it any good? I don't know I never use AFc, I like to be in control of my creativity with AFs and single shot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 24 Share #29 Posted January 24 59 minutes ago, bsmith said: We shall…. you said it all “ = “I’m not a Pro” Sports history has hundreds of thousands of outstanding sports action photographs before the Sony spray and pray crowd existed. Look at 60’s 70’s Sports Illustrated photos. I shoot single or 2-3 frames per second at NBA and NHL games 5 times a week and I’d be happy to compare my “take” with your machine gun style. One can also kill more deers with a machine gun than a bow or rifle too! But good hunters wait for their shot. Craft. you don’t understand “craft” it means talent. Leica Q43 is not a dedicated sports camera, but it can handle action photography in street or sports in the right hands it focuses the first few frames accurately and consistently as fast as any camera. Happy spraying 😊 I I understand the point you’re trying to make but pro sports photographers have always used the highest frame rate and best AF cameras available. They predate the supposed Sony crowd by a lot of years. Yes, they used manual focus and film at one point. When new technology becomes available it usually ends up in the flagship sports models first (Nikon D#, Canon 1 and now R1). Hunting is a poor analogy because there are considerations like destroying the meat or trophy that prevent a “machine gun” from being used. Also many now hunt for the challenge rather than for the most kills. That would equate more to M shooting. When destroying the target isn’t an issue (think military) no one is using bows or simple rifles that would be used to hunt deer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 24 Share #30 Posted January 24 10 minutes ago, Photoworks said: this replay is marketing, reality with Leica is often different. On the SL3, they carefully worded PDAF with the new sensor. and never said anything about how it works. What you get in reality is disappointing, if not a fraudulent omission. On the SL3 AFs only uses Contrast, the same as the SL2, no less no more. No words from Leica! Only AFC PDAF is used, is it any good? I don't know I never use AFc, I like to be in control of my creativity with AFs and single shot. Have you tried AFc using back button focus with the SL3? That’s how I always shot Nikon and how I would like to shoot with Leica. Releasing the back button turns it essentially into AFs on command. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24 Share #31 Posted January 24 This thread is about the SL3S which has a hybrid AF system - PDAF and CDAF, unlike the SL3. Please explain how a technical specification is marketing and "reality is different" You may be unaware that those systems have different characteristics. PDAF is faster, CDAF more accurate. Which is the reason that hybrid systems using both methods exist and are in use across brands. 8 hours ago, Photoworks said: this replay is marketing, reality with Leica is often different. On the SL3, they carefully worded PDAF with the new sensor. and never said anything about how it works. What you get in reality is disappointing, if not a fraudulent omission. On the SL3 AFs only uses Contrast, the same as the SL2, no less no more. No words from Leica! Only AFC PDAF is used, is it any good? I don't know I never use AFc, I like to be in control of my creativity with AFs and single shot. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24 Share #32 Posted January 24 12 hours ago, MRJohn said: Trying to bring us back to the topic, not sure all of these points are relevant to the question unless this means that e.g. at ISO 200.000 it can track a selected subject in a busy scene. Frankly, I doubt it (my SL2-S really starts dropping the AF ball at ISO 6400 also in moving target pattern recognition modes with simpler challenges than busy moving scenes) but maybe someone has data to support it is working way beyond ISO 6400 now. The individual SL3-S claims/features are impressive, the question is what you can do with it and how this all works together to achieve great AF performance in challenging situations, specifically, busy moving scenes. The S2S has a different focus system. Personally at ISO 200.000 I would use manual focus - I don't want the camera shooting red beams of light into the darkness. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simone_DF Posted January 24 Share #33 Posted January 24 9 hours ago, bsmith said: We shall…. you said it all “ = “I’m not a Pro” Sports history has hundreds of thousands of outstanding sports action photographs before the Sony spray and pray crowd existed. Yeah, and military history has thousand of years of people going to war on horses, but today they choose planes and tanks. Technology evolves. Sticking to what people did 50 years ago is perfectly ok if that's your thing, but other people prefer to use technology that facilitates their lives. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 24 Share #34 Posted January 24 (edited) 1 hour ago, jaapv said: This thread is about the SL3S which has a hybrid AF system - PDAF and CDAF, unlike the SL3. Please explain how a technical specification is marketing and "reality is different" Leica describes the SL3 as also having hybrid AF. From SL3 technical specs page on Leica’s website: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! From SL3 marketing narrative on Leica’s website: Edited January 24 by LD_50 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! From SL3 marketing narrative on Leica’s website: ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/418707-sl3-s-is-the-af-ability-to-track-subjects-in-busy-scenes-improved/?do=findComment&comment=5745693'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24 Share #35 Posted January 24 Really? Ok. AFAIK it had only a fraction of the AF points that the SL2S has to achieve this. And the SL3S is described everywhere as haven a completely new AF system. At any rate, in general a 24 MP system should be faster than an equivalent 60 MP system. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MRJohn Posted January 24 Author Share #36 Posted January 24 1 hour ago, LD_50 said: Leica describes the SL3 as also having hybrid AF. From SL3 technical specs page on Leica’s website: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! From SL3 marketing narrative on Leica’s website: "perfectly sharp images in any light"... we shall see... sharp, yes, but sharp what is supposed to be sharp? My common use case shouldn't be too difficult to substantiate the claim, dimly lit music venues (of course AF assist lamp is a no go, just like flash would be - ISO 6400 and fast lenses a must). E.g. too often the neck of a saxophone is sharp, but not the eyes when using eye-detect AF. "meets all professional requirements" ...well they write it, they better deliver since they raise expectations. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LD_50 Posted January 24 Share #37 Posted January 24 1 minute ago, MRJohn said: "perfectly sharp images in any light"... we shall see... sharp, yes, but sharp what is supposed to be sharp? My common use case shouldn't be too difficult to substantiate the claim, dimly lit music venues (of course AF assist lamp is a no go, just like flash would be - ISO 6400 and fast lenses a must). E.g. too often the neck of a saxophone is sharp, but not the eyes when using eye-detect AF. "meets all professional requirements" ...well they write it, they better deliver since they raise expectations. That was all from the SL3 documentation so its ability should be well known by now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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