MS Optics Apoqualia 28mm f1.7

[geotrupede]

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All, anyone with one of these beauty that could confirm the performance at f8/f11?

How does it compare to an elmarit asph 2.8 at f8/f11?

Is the difference really there?

Thanks

G>

 

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[geotrupede]

I answered myself by getting one of these 😉

For future reference and for the adventurers. 

Open at 1.7, wild.  Very soft images with a diffuse glow all around. It is useable but the effect is very strong and therefore images have a look. If you are after consistency with other lenses, or simply want a sharp lens, this is not at 1.7.

It is a little difficult to precisely set the aperture precisely as it is clickless.

F8 - 16 are more or less the same position on the dial so whilst 16 is the end, where 8, 11 are is a little less clear.

The quality improves a lot in this range: the sharpness is absolutely acceptable, the extreme corners are a little blurry at 8, then get better. Interestingly the centre looses resolution by closing down and becomes blurrier. I suppose this because of field curvature. 

Night time images: at 1.7 coma is incredible, a lot of glow, magic and special. Images look frames from a dream. I like more the situation in which the focus is closer, bokeh is better.

Closed down with flash for max resolution and at night I have yet to try. The main concern is precise setting of aperture but let's see.

The leica 2.8 asph is better on every level, except extreme portability and size.  The leica f2 is too large, not to mention the 1.4. But are stellar performers.

Previous MS f2 was also good, a little less extreme in character but similar. As other reported elsewhere, the MS 24 is a better lens and even smaller. But with less glow, which can be an interesting effect.

All the above in the context of my search for the perfect 28, must be small, super small, high resolution and can be f4 onwards. The perar seems to have been all of this but it is impossible to find. Leica 5.6 and clones not too sure. CV a little too large.

G

 

 

 

 

 

[pippy]

23 minutes ago, geotrupede said:

Open at 1.7, wild.  Very soft images with a diffuse glow all around. It is useable but...if you simply want a sharp lens, this is not at 1.7.

It is a little difficult to precisely set the aperture precisely as it is clickless.

The quality improves a lot in the f8 - f11 range: the sharpness is absolutely acceptable, the extreme corners are a little blurry at 8, then get better. Interestingly the centre looses resolution by closing down and becomes blurrier...

The leica 2.8 asph is better on every level, except extreme portability and size...

So, in essence, the MS Optics Apoqualia 28mm f1.7 is, in all honesty (and not to beat about the bush), utterly crap in pretty much every single way that truly matters in an optical sense.

Oscar Barnack's fascination with 'compactness' aside its ethos goes against practically everything which Leitz have aimed for (Thambar excepted...😸...) considering that excellence in optics has been their 'raison d'être' since their founding circa 1879 and it's good to hear that the Elmarit ASPH is a million miles better in every way unless you wish your images to "have a look"? which, basically means, 'Blurry and out of focus'.

Will this come as a surprise to anyone here? I rather think not.

Good for him if he manages to sell them of course. 'Character' lenses have a great part to play in the continuing story of 'Photography' when considered as an Art Form and I'm all for it carrying-on in that fashion.

😺

Philip.

[Ecar]

I only saw this thread now.

My experience with the 28mm Apoqualias mirrors yours. Definitely nothing to do with an Elmarit ASPH in terms of rendering. The 28/1.7 is now gone, but I still have the 28/2.

The Perar 28/4 is a good little lens and behaves as you would expect from a classic triplet.

I'd also suggest the Canon 28/2.8, the Nikkor 28/3.5 or the more recent Ricoh GR 28/2.8. All in LTM. Not tiny but very small.

[Ecar]

9 minutes ago, pippy said:

So, in essence, the MS Optics Apoqualia 28mm f1.7 is, in all honesty (and not to beat about the bush), utterly crap in pretty much every single way that truly matters in an optical sense.

....

Good for him if he manages to sell them of course. 'Character' lenses have a great part to play in the continuing story of 'Photography' when considered as an Art Form and I'm all for it carrying-on in that fashion.

Indeed, the 28/1.7 is not Miyazaki's best...😉

[pippy]

31 minutes ago, Ecar said:

...The Perar 28/4 is a good little lens and behaves as you would expect from a classic triplet...

Ah! The Perar is a very interesting proposition and one which I've been considering - half-heartedly - for a wee while...

Yesterday, as it happens, I was out shooting with a 28 f5.6 so, in these dark times (believe me), the f4.0 would be an "Uptick" (as these younger folk would say).

Philip.

[geotrupede]

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I like how many opinions are surfacing now that the item is sold 😉.

For me it is good enough and i am quite pleased but nothing to do with a 28 by leica, l would say it is an interesting little gem. As said, portability is king for me and f11 is good with flash as I do use flash primarily. Perar remains the goal, but who knows when... they seem to have disappeared from the world!

[charlesphoto99]

6 hours ago, geotrupede said:

The leica f2 is too large

Strange. Possibly the most compact 28 f/2 ever made, esp considering the performance wide open. The trick is to not use it with the hood (version1) and just a UV filter. Rarely flares. 

[Ecar]

I guess size is relative...

From left to right: Summicron 28/2 ASPH v1, Elmarit 28/2.8 ASPH v1, Apoqualia 28/2, Perar 28/4. Note that both MS lenses are wearing their respective hoods here and that the Perar has a shorter rear cap. Apologies for the poor phone shot.

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[geotrupede]

42 minutes ago, Ecar said:

I guess size is relative...

From left to right: Summicron 28/2 ASPH v1, Elmarit 28/2.8 ASPH v1, Apoqualia 28/2, Perar 28/4. Note that both MS lenses are wearing their respective hoods here and that the Perar has a shorter rear cap. Apologies for the poor phone shot.

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Love your collection! I have the f2, the 2,8 the apoqualia f2, the 1.7, then the R shift (VERY LARGE). Previously had the CV 1.9 and 2. but sold them. Perar is next on the list for me. How do you like it?

[Ecar]

28 minutes ago, geotrupede said:

Love your collection! I have the f2, the 2,8 the apoqualia f2, the 1.7, then the R shift (VERY LARGE). Previously had the CV 1.9 and 2. but sold them. Perar is next on the list for me. How do you like it?

Thanks. I actually sold the 28/1.7 a couple of months ago within a week of receiving it: I like (sometimes extreme) "character" lenses, but this one just felt like a 28/2 on steroids in terms of corner mushiness and field curvature.

As I wrote above, the Perar is a classic triplet: sharp in the center from f/4, with edges catching up (somewhat...) at f/8. Vignetting is rather pronounced. Great for street due to diminutive size and weight. Like most MS lenses, I prefer their rendering in B&W, but that's just me. Ergonomics are typical Miyazaki - you know what I mean... Marumi 19mm filters can be screwed inside the hood, without adding extra bulk - unlike the Apoqualia, which requires 28mm filters to sit between the front of the lens and the hood.

At the risk of repeating myself, and perhaps until you find a copy of the Perar, I'd seriously consider the Nikkor, Canon or Ricoh that I mentioned above. They are faster than the Summaron or the Orion-15 and each has its own distinctive rendering. I can post a similar picture showing their relative size if you are interested.

[charlesphoto99]

8 hours ago, Ecar said:

I guess size is relative...

From left to right: Summicron 28/2 ASPH v1, Elmarit 28/2.8 ASPH v1, Apoqualia 28/2, Perar 28/4. Note that both MS lenses are wearing their respective hoods here and that the Perar has a shorter rear cap. Apologies for the poor phone shot.

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Yeah, handy I suppose if one wants to shove the camera in a pocket. Is the focusing more fiddly to do on the pancakes than the Elmarit or Summicron? I will admit to lusting some after the Leica 28 Summaron. 

[Ecar]

35 minutes ago, charlesphoto99 said:

Yeah, handy I suppose if one wants to shove the camera in a pocket. Is the focusing more fiddly to do on the pancakes than the Elmarit or Summicron? I will admit to lusting some after the Leica 28 Summaron. 

Focusing itself is not particularly fiddly. But what happens, as with most Miyazaki lenses, is that changing aperture (in the case of these lenses it's best done by rotating the hood) also affects the focus. So basically one needs to set the aperture first and then focus.

[geotrupede]

Another day of testing,  Leica vs MS. on M11. Easy to spot the difference but not as dramatic as indicated above... I would say that with good light, f8 onwards with exception of the corners, the images are pretty much the same.

there is however flare when a bright light is visible in the corners, perhaps corrected with a slightly modified shade.

the key difference is ergonomics with setting precise aperture setting.  

for night time closeup portraits, the focus could be a little difficult as there is no tactile difference when moving from rangefinder coupled distances to closeup. This is signalled by the red engravings.

Anyway, it is not a lens for beginners or for professionals but it is a lovely little lens and I am quite happy with it. 

G.

 

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[euwe_max]

Hi all, I've been looking to get one of these lenses but I noticed there seems to be 2 versions going on ebay. One version has the words "Apoqualia 1.7/28 Full MC" in white and another version has it in gold and red. I have attached some photos. Anyone knows if there are any optical performance differences? Also, is it possible to screw on a filter using the threads meant for the hood to the front? Any idea what the diameter is? 

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[geotrupede]

There are 2 versions, or better, two batches. the first has slight closer focusing that the second (the distance markings are the same, just the lens does not allow rotations beyond a point). I suspect the first has also the gold/red lettering. I have the second type, with white characters.  As for the filters I will check, the groove is very shallow so not sure.

[euwe_max]

I see, thanks for letting me know, I bought the first batch in the end, with the gold/red letters, I shall try out the close focusing distance when mine arrives!

[Ecar]

IIRC, the filter on the 28/1.7 fits in reverse and is screwed into the hood. Filter size is 30 or 34mm, I'm not sure.

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[euwe_max]

Just got my copy today, mine is the gold/red version the minimum close focus seems to be 0.4m as well. I do notice the lens backfocuses quite a little bit though. Does anyone have this issue as well, is there something I can do to calibrate the focus? Thanks in advance! 

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[geotrupede]

Congratulations with the new lens.

As for the adjustment. I have managed to completely disassemble the version 1 of the 28 f2 following the instruction on this web page: https://gigantoptik.com/1661.

In that case the rear profile is screwed and glued in, which means you can twist it, and take it away and then reinstate and adjust the calibration by slightly turning it. 

I think that the 28 1.7 has a similar system but would ask the factory, before going ahead with experiments and twisting the wrong thing in the wrong direction [**]. In any case you will notice two tiny holes in the profile, those I suspect can be used to twist the profile. In my own personal experience all the MS lenses are easy to tweak, but worth checking.

G.

 

[**]I have previously destroyed a VC 12mm 5.6 trying to remove some dust in the internal lenses... was never able to fully take it apart and to put it back together... a warning that things can go wrong!