Hasselblad vs Canon 5d mk ii to supplement M11

[Derbyshire Man]

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I realise I'm a grown up and only I can make the decision; but I've got a bit of cash and already have an M11 with some nice Summilux, Voigtlander and classic lenses. I mostly shoot B&W landscape and portraits as well as some cityscape/architectural as a built and human environment rather than full on street. One area I don't have covered adequately however is fast moving event/parties etc, I've got a 5D mk iv and as on the Leica I'm more of a fan of primes like the 50 and 85 1.2 rather than zooms and I've always found the autofocus rather hit and miss. I therefore found myself considering changing the 5D into an R5 mkii as it looks like that is going to do a better job with an 85mm and picking out and tracking eyes etc.

Having had the above thought it suddenly struck me that for not a huge amount more I'm in the territory of a second hand X2D 100C, the images from them are lovely and clearly it would fulfil  the static portrait element and landscape element nicely. I can't help but feel though that the M11 on minimum ISO, shot like the X2D, with some work on the file afterwards is not very different from the M11 and I'd be in the situation of deciding if I'm taking the X2D or the M11 out on any particular day. So although it would be nice it probably isn't filling as much of a gap as the R5 mkii. 

The only downside the the R5 is it looks to be a camera with freezing needing battery removal and it's quite a lot to be tied up into a camera which isn't going out very often and would certainly get less use than an X2D.

In reality I'm not looking for people to tell me what to do (I may just keep the cash and see what M12 looks like*) but I thought it might be interesting to chew the fat. If you hate this kind of thread (and let's face it some do) then I apologise for annoying you!

Thanks!

>------

* I realise this will be even more triggering but if there's an visoflex 3 it could do with the same number of megapixels as the Canon EVF and use phase contrast AI eye/face detect rather than the current hopeless fuzzy edge focus peaking that simply lies!

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[Al Brown]

Just don't use the 5D Mk II to supplement anything. It is very old.

[Derbyshire Man]

Thanks, sorry, lot's of camera initials, not the 5D mk2 (I've still got one!) but I'm thinking of replacing the 5d mk4 with a R5 mk 2 (ie mirrorless highly automated) for events and parties, where everyone is fast moving and situations are suboptimal. I'd still be taking a M11 as the unobtrusive option in addition.

[Dazzajl]

The Hassy is not going to deliver on fast AF for moving subjects. If you want that from from a medium format camera then the GFX100ii would be a much better bet. Nicer lenses too in my opinion but that’s a can of worms with Hassy users.

Something modern from either Canon or Sony would seem like the smart choice to pair with the more classic pleasures of your M but ultimately it comes down to picking something that you’ll enjoy using. Or however good the specs and recommendations are, it’s going to be sat at home while you’re out. 

[Derbyshire Man]

1 minute ago, Dazzajl said:

The Hassy is not going to deliver on fast AF for moving subjects. If you want that from from a medium format camera then the GFX100ii would be a much better bet. Nicer lenses too in my opinion but that’s a can of worms with Hassy users.

Something modern from either Canon or Sony would seem like the smart choice to pair with the more classic pleasures of your M but ultimately it comes down to picking something that you’ll enjoy using. Or however good the specs and recommendations are, it’s going to be sat at home while you’re out. 

That's probably the core of it, if the gap is fast and automated rather than resolution and colour...

[Al Brown]

No need for the latest RF mirrorless... It will not give you anything you do not already own. Just get the X2D, many M users did and could not be happier, just search the forum and/or the web for testimonials. I sold all my Canon gear and my GFX, the Hasselblad and M are a match made in heaven.

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[Einst_Stein]

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I thought you would talk about Hasselblad V.  I don’t see Hasselblad X2D a descendent of Hasselblad V. 

I have Nikon D850 to complement Leica S, L, and M, mainly for whatever needs super  tele and super fast AF.  I believe I would be equally happy if I happened choosing Canon 5D4. It was actually a tough choice then.  If you are not aimed at similar applications as mine, this would be irrelevant to you. but if it were not for the similar applications as mine, I don’t see any compelling reason to add non-Leicas, 

Have you thought about Leica SLx or S instead? 

 

 

Edited January 6 by Einst_Stein

[Dazzajl]

2 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

No need for the latest RF mirrorless... It will not give you anything you do not already own

 

That’s not the case though is it. I’m all for ‘you do you’ and clearly those two systems deliver what you need but that’s not what the original question was. The M is absolutely no use if the job is fast, accurate and reliable AF in less than optimal situations and the Hassy is not made or designed for that either. 
 

In a conversation about the tool for this job, the M and the X2 are way way down at the bottom of the list. They’re both utterly fabulous of course but in their intended arenas. 

[Al Brown]

6 hours ago, Dazzajl said:

That’s not the case though is it. I’m all for ‘you do you’ and clearly those two systems deliver what you need but that’s not what the original question was. The M is absolutely no use if the job is fast, accurate and reliable AF in less than optimal situations and the Hassy is not made or designed for that either. 
 

In a conversation about the tool for this job, the M and the X2 are way way down at the bottom of the list. They’re both utterly fabulous of course but in their intended arenas. 

I was not answering to you

[Viv]

6 hours ago, Al Brown said:

No need for the latest RF mirrorless... It will not give you anything you do not already own. Just get the X2D, many M users did and could not be happier, just search the forum and/or the web for testimonials. I sold all my Canon gear and my GFX, the Hasselblad and M are a match made in heaven.

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I agree. I have the M11 and the X2D.

[Derbyshire Man]

1 hour ago, Al Brown said:

I was not answering to you

Did you mean that the R5M2 isn’t going to deliver much more in fast paced event shooting than the 5DM4? I’ve found with the 50 and 85mm that wide open is hit and miss even with relatively stationary subjects. 

There’s a secondary question in that I’ve got an M11P plus M11D and much though I value having the two bodies to minimise lens changes one could make an argument there’s more utility in one of those being something else. I can’t see a situation however where I could face going on a wander with a X2D and an M whereas I find even 3 M bodies feasible, the third being a M11M. 

[Al Brown]

16 minutes ago, Derbyshire Man said:

Did you mean that the R5M2 isn’t going to deliver much more in fast paced event shooting than the 5DM4? I’ve found with the 50 and 85mm that wide open is hit and miss even with relatively stationary subjects. 

There’s a secondary question in that I’ve got an M11P plus M11D and much though I value having the two bodies to minimise lens changes one could make an argument there’s more utility in one of those being something else. I can’t see a situation however where I could face going on a wander with a X2D and an M whereas I find even 3 M bodies feasible, the third being a M11M. 

The problem with DSLR Canons using fast lenses wide open is well documented, but it can easily be solved using the central focusing point. I have been a Canon Ambassador for 8 years, we have found a workaround for everything. Just ask yourself how badly you need this/how crucial it is for your work.

Upon reading your last answer I will dare to say - without offending anyone - that you just have GAS. Try optimizing & maximizing your workflow with what gear you have and if you really feel you are stuck get whatever you want

 

[M11 for me]

If you need a camera with perfect Autofocus for "events and parties etc" as you write then the Hasselblad is probably not the perfect tool. First of all its too big and heavy: Have you ever been at an event holding your 5D MkIV for 3 hours or even longer? How did you feel then? You probably did some gymnastics with your tired hand every 5 minutes. And imagine now an even heavier tool. For me even the R5 in the bag with 35, 135 and 50mm lens is the limit when it comes to weight that I have to carry around for a longer time. 

I am an M11 shooter most of the time and I always had Canon 5er cameras (since the MkII) I was then in the same situation as you are now. What did I do then? If I seriously re-started to use my MkIV and I learned how its AF performed at my smaller and bigger events. I used my existing lenses. Eventually I understood that the R5 was another beast. Because of higher needs in AF I switched to the R5 which does a great job (plus it has a fantastic sensor compared to 5D MkIV). But note: You have to learn a lot about the complex AF system of the R5. It takes probably a long time until you have set the different functions to the programmable function buttons. The R5 is a clear Pro tool. Its complex but its able to deliver. I love it for that. I then changed the use of my old lenses as well (of course I have, and still have, the f/2.8 70-200 plus f/2.8 24-70 and many more). This heavy stuff it nothing for events in lower light. I started to leave these heavy lenses at home and together with the R5 I bought the R-adapter and today I only use my the fastest prime lenses: The f/1.4 35mm (EF) plus a second EF: my awesome 135 f/2. Then I bout one RF: The 50mm f/1.2. Equiped with these 3 lenses (1 new and 2 old) I am able to do everything at events. But compared to an M equipment its still quite heavy; no doubt.

Events for me is the world of the R5. And travel and archtecture and hiking etc is for my M11. That is how I do it. I envy all those who shoot weddings with a Leica M. I was never able to do that. 

PS: In this post I mix up the R5 and R5 MkII. For events the MkII will bring you nothing more than the first R5 can do. Have a look at the reviews from Tony and Celsea Northrup (on Youtube). They have an excellent channel. Maybe a second hand R5 might do the job.