50mm lens with large aperture suggestion?

[kl122002]

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I used to have a Summarit 50/1.5 (M mount). It is too old and haze have been on the glass since I have it in 1980s. It is getting worst these days and the technician cannot remove it. I have a Canon LTM 50/1.4 and using it on the M3 with an adapter. However I still wish to have a M mount f/1.4 or f/1.5 lens . 

There are lots of new brands instore, and most of them are from China. Many of them are very affordable and even much like a "toy's price" when they are in second hand market . But are they doing good ?  Or should I just hope into new Zeiss ZM C Sonnar 50/1.5 or a used Leica Summlix 50/1.4 ?  

Is it true that most of the Zessis ZM lens are still manufactured form Germany ? Or by Cosina Japan or other places ? 

 

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[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb kl122002:

There are lots of new brands instore, and most of them are from China. Many of them are very affordable and even much like a "toy's price" when they are in second hand market . But are they doing good ?

My recommendation would be, to take a look at the 50mm f/1.4 ASPH from Thypoch. Overall, it surpassed the 50mm Summilux for me.

For more specific recommendations, you should give a hint about the budget you are willing to spend.

vor 19 Minuten schrieb kl122002:

Is it true that most of the Zessis ZM lens are still manufactured form Germany ? Or by Cosina Japan or other places ?

Not sure, where the Zeiss ZM C Sonnar 50/1.5 was/is manufactured, but in Germany, Zeiss only manufactures Cine lenses these days.

Edited January 6 by 3D-Kraft.com

[BernardC]

23 minutes ago, kl122002 said:

Is it true that most of the Zessis ZM lens are still manufactured form Germany ? Or by Cosina Japan or other places ? 

Very few ZM lenses were made in Germany. Just the 15 and 85 from memory. The rest are made by Cosina in Japan. Whether or not these are still manufactured is unknown. Presumably Cosina can make more if they run out of stock and there is enough demand from their distributors.

[TomB_tx]

I'd recommend the VC Nokton 1.5 50 II. I also have the 1.5 Summarit, Summilux 50, etc. and got the Nokton some weeks ago. Excellent build quality, similar small size to the Zeiss 1.5 but without the focus shift problems, and I like the image quality better than the others mentioned. My standard 50 on the M10 has been the Summarit 2.5 due to size, handling matching the 35mm version that is my main M10 lens. I got the new Nokton for film M use where the speed can be handy - but now it tends to stay on my M10. I've use both older model Nokton 1.5 versions with excellent results, but the size and quality of the new ver II puts it another level.

My only complaint on the ver II is that it lacks the raised "Leica Dot" for tactile positioning when mounting, just having a small red mark on the side of the flange. I just got a 3.5 mm end mill to spot-face the knurling next to the index mark to glue on a proper round dot.

Edited January 6 by TomB_tx

[3D-Kraft.com]

Yes, the CV Nokton 50/1.5 II is also a very good performer and very compact. I would say, at the end it depends on your taste regarding the bokeh. Here, the Nokton can get sometimes a bit busy and swirly.

[BernardC]

Almost any fast 50 will be very different from your old hazy Summarit, so you need to ask yourself what look you want to achieve.

The successor to your Summarit is the original (aka "pre-Asph") Summilux, which was made for approximately 45 years starting in 1960. Lots of them are available.

The next step in terms of look is the Asph (2005-today), which is going to behave very different from your Summarit, especially at wider apertures and in contrasty lighting.

The ZM Sonnar has a look all its own. It is very contrasty and flare-proof, but it's based on a 1930s concept so don't expect it to be an all-rounder. For instance it doesn't do well at closer distances (which is why it's limited to 1m), and the bokeh can be distracting. The ZM Planar f:2.0 is an all-rounder, but you specifically asked about faster lenses.

Cosina/Voigtlander offers many different options in this range, some of which mimic a vintage look, some are very modern. You can also look for a vintage (1950s and 1960s) Japanese lenses if you want a mid-century feel at a (usually) lower price than a Summilux.

[Ko.Fe.]

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Zeiss ZM are Cosina made, Japan. SAme factory as VM, Voigtlander lenses. 

Price, size, performance Cosina latest made 50 1.5 will be just fine. 

But to be honest, if 50 1.4 is not hazed, aligned you won't get much more on film body with newer lens.

Just more contrast and more neutral rendering of colors coming from emulsion...

[kkm]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Ko.Fe.:

Zeiss ZM are Cosina made

Except the 15mm f2.8 ZM 😉 This lens is made by Zeiss itself in Oberkochen.

[oldwino]

No love for the Voigtlander 50/1.2?

Fast, compact (for what it is), much less vignetting than the 50/1.5ii. Just 24g heavier than the Summarit.

[TomB_tx]

27 minutes ago, oldwino said:

No love for the Voigtlander 50/1.2?

Fast, compact (for what it is), much less vignetting than the 50/1.5ii. Just 24g heavier than the Summarit.

I don't notice vignetting being an issue with the 50/1.5ii - but then I used to spend time in the darkroom burning in the outer parts of prints to emphasize the subject...

[3D-Kraft.com]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb oldwino:

No love for the Voigtlander 50/1.2?

Fast, compact (for what it is), much less vignetting than the 50/1.5ii. Just 24g heavier than the Summarit.

Definitely a good lens but the TO asked for f/1.4 to f/1.5 and uses an M3.
Would you recommend it also for the M3 without live view or even an option to check the shot right after it has been taken?

[oldwino]

2 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

Definitely a good lens but the TO asked for f/1.4 to f/1.5 and uses an M3.
Would you recommend it also for the M3 without live view or even an option to check the shot right after it has been taken?

If there’s a film M that would work “best” for that lens, it would be the M3. 

[kl122002]

10 hours ago, 3D-Kraft.com said:

My recommendation would be, to take a look at the 50mm f/1.4 ASPH from Thypoch. Overall, it surpassed the 50mm Summilux for me.

For more specific recommendations, you should give a hint about the budget you are willing to spend.

Not sure, where the Zeiss ZM C Sonnar 50/1.5 was/is manufactured, but in Germany, Zeiss only manufactures Cine lenses these days.

Arh, yes , the budget! Since I am just going to buy 1 lens my max cap would be around US$3000 for new, while around US$2000 for used one. 

Many example pictures seems fine from looking on the websites, but would they perform the same on film, especially B&W as well ? 

[padam]

I've yet to see any lens that does not work well with film. Yes, this is not the 50mm on the video, but all Thypoch lenses have a similar signature to my eyes.

Finding a "bad" 50mm would much more of a challenge. At the end of the day, it's really down to individual preferences regarding image quality, handling, etc.

 

[kl122002]

9 hours ago, BernardC said:

Almost any fast 50 will be very different from your old hazy Summarit, so you need to ask yourself what look you want to achieve.

The successor to your Summarit is the original (aka "pre-Asph") Summilux, which was made for approximately 45 years starting in 1960. Lots of them are available.

The next step in terms of look is the Asph (2005-today), which is going to behave very different from your Summarit, especially at wider apertures and in contrasty lighting.

The ZM Sonnar has a look all its own. It is very contrasty and flare-proof, but it's based on a 1930s concept so don't expect it to be an all-rounder. For instance it doesn't do well at closer distances (which is why it's limited to 1m), and the bokeh can be distracting. The ZM Planar f:2.0 is an all-rounder, but you specifically asked about faster lenses.

Cosina/Voigtlander offers many different options in this range, some of which mimic a vintage look, some are very modern. You can also look for a vintage (1950s and 1960s) Japanese lenses if you want a mid-century feel at a (usually) lower price than a Summilux.

What I like from Summarit is from the character in B&W . Of course it doesn't do well in colour but when it comes to B&W something seems magic there. I like the contrast and tones changes among the zones. But I understand ithis lens has been too old now I think I would need to move on. 

Pre-asph Summilux seems ok, but the local market marked them high. Then I got introduced into newer non-L brand lenses by the shop keepers and so now I am just like in a rabbit hole .

 

[kl122002]

7 hours ago, oldwino said:

No love for the Voigtlander 50/1.2?

Fast, compact (for what it is), much less vignetting than the 50/1.5ii. Just 24g heavier than the Summarit.

What concerts me would be the blocking in VF with faster lens like f1.2or 0.95.  does it happen to M3 too? 

[jaapv]

My recommendation would be a Voigtländer Nokton 1.5. A lovely lens, rendering somewhere between modern and vintage and no significant viewfinder blocking issues Vented hood. I prefer it to the Summilux 50 asph. 

[Vanillasludge]

9 hours ago, oldwino said:

No love for the Voigtlander 50/1.2?

Fast, compact (for what it is), much less vignetting than the 50/1.5ii. Just 24g heavier than the Summarit.

I love mine. It always amazes me how good a 1.2 lens can be even wide open.  It resists flare even without a hood and the mechanical quality is “Leica or better”, particularly in its focus and aperture action. 

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[Vanillasludge]

1 hour ago, kl122002 said:

What concerts me would be the blocking in VF with faster lens like f1.2or 0.95.  does it happen to M3 too? 

On the Nokton It’s really minimal since you don’t need a hood.  

[kl122002]

32 minutes ago, _tc said:

Gotta provide more criteria or you'll just get folks chiming in with their own personal favorites.

You shouldn't buy a C Sonnar unless you know it's exactly what you want. If it is, great, you'll love it. If you just wanted a good basic 50mm with a moderately fast aperture you dont have to fuss over you'll despise the focus shift.

The easiest lens to recommend in a vacuum is the 50 Summilux ASPH. Very minimal focus shift, excellent center sharpness, not too big in v1 form, used prices are relatively reasonable as far as Leica lenses go. It was a landmark lens when it was released and it's very hard to get it to produce bad looking images as long as youre not too bothered by its characteristic red flare or the shape it imparts on specular highlights. Despite the ninja stars, it still has the best OOF rendering of any lens I've ever personally gotten to shoot with for any 35mm system, to my own personal taste.

In fact this is why I failed to list my criteria. There are too many brands and honestly I have no idea where to begin. 

In those days I can stick to Leica, Minolta, Konica or Rollei, but the M/K/R have gone, Chinese and other Japanese lenses are raising and so I am confused. Chinese lens seems cheap to play, but could they do serious works? . It seems to me Light Lens Lab is cloning old Leica lens design and selling relatively higher in price, is it a good brand? 

Traditional film ( especially B&W ) is still my major medium.  I wish a faster lens , particular f/1.4 or 1.5 for dim/night time, and including for general use. 

 Zeiss Sonnar  something I know well from Contax RF, and I wish the current model could do just like the old one. But as I googled the focusing shift seems has been in some older posts. Have Zeiss corrected it today?