Thin Elmar 9cm strange serial

[Giuliobigazzi]

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Hello all, I’ve come into possession of a very strange Elmar without serial on the rim but engraved in the brass on the side. Serial is from first official batch but I have earlier that are engraved in the regular way. This side engraving is sometimes seen on the Elmar 13.5cm. 
Does anyone here have one the same or has seen one like it?

thanks!

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[alan mcfall]

Here are two thin 90 elmars of mine:

165597 with normal front engraving.  I have recorded another 10 from 165xxx all with normal front engraving, including the closest to yours at 165800.

128050, normal front engraving but too early for a thin version, as the fat version head does not fit on the thin focusing mount, I think it may have been a factory(?) conversion. I have not seen any literature that Leitz offered a conversion from fat to thin, but I can imagine a few customers requesting it.

Also, seems all fat versions had nickle trim rings, while all thin versions had chrome, at least what I have seen. 141982 is the latest fat version I have recorded, before they went to the 165001+ lot for the new thin versions.

Maybe your 165778 is a one-off unit for internal factory usage?

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[alan mcfall]

Here a few 90 elmars, I also like the all chrome version.

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[Giuliobigazzi]

These are my others in the 165xxx range. 165067 and 165999 are chrome, 165081 and 165083 are nickel.

I will enquire about delivery details for 165778

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[Giuliobigazzi]

135884 also nickel, this is a transitional lens, probably one of the earliest thin, 135864 I think the earliest recorded

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[UliWer]

vor 2 Stunden schrieb Giuliobigazzi:

165067 and 165999 are chrome, 165081 and 165083 are nickel.

My 165119 is also in nickel and engraved as usual on the front.

Edited December 28, 2024 by UliWer

[alan mcfall]

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Other observed very early (prototype?) thin 90 elmars are:  135910,135925,135937,135962.

Per Thiele, an assigned 90 Elmar lot was to be 135001-136040 followed by a 105mm Elmar lot from 136040-137000. Evidently, 90 production continued beyond 136040 and was mixed with the 105 lenses.

Some observed 90 Fat lenses are: 136002a,136029a,136039a,136044a,136055a*, 136067a,136098a,136103a,136104a,136120a,136121a,136127a,136142a,136147a,136169a.

Some observed parallel production  105mm elmar lenses are:136002,9,17,39,44,50,55,66,72,77,93,94,98,127,136,142,155,160.

There are several other instances where production runs over the planned allotment resulted in mixed lots and duplicate serial numbers with other focal length lenes.  Usually, the "*" was used for differentiation.  The "a" more typically was "angemeldet" or patent applied for,and can be seen on a few early camera bodies.

I am not sure why the "*" was not used in many of these cases. Engraver choice, another meaning for "a", such as abschrift? Viewfinder magazine, 35-2 notes that 105 Elmar lenses at 251501-251521 are duplicates of 35mm elmar lenses.   105 Elmars  251507a and 251521a have been observed.

If anyone has more information on lenses with the "a" suffix, it would be interesting. Perhaps the factory lens production records provide insight.

 

[Giuliobigazzi]

The 136055a* is strange as it has both the a and asterisk, presumably all the ‘a’ lenses will have a 105mm twin. Have any of these surfaced? 

[luigi bertolotti]

Giulio, apart the lack of s/n, is the front writing standard ? I remember that the fat version has some variations (my fat has "Elmar 1:4 F=9cm", others have "Elmar f=9 cm 1:4" which is the usual writing on all the thin, afaik)

[Giuliobigazzi]

Here’s another photo from the front 

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