Used Leica M10 for B&W

[pnwpotter]

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I have owned all of the cameras mentioned … M246, M10, M10-P, M10M, M10-R. And I have sold them all except the M10M … and a week ago I bought a used M10 again. 

Why? 

Because after having all of them for extended periods, for me the M10 has the best color science. I had the M10 from when It was released, having sold my M246 because of banding at high ISO. The M10 served me well from 2018 to 2020 when I bought the M10M. Now I played with a M10-P and a M10-R ... and they both got sold. 

So I went back to the M10. 

It has less noise at 6400 ISO than either the M10-R or M10-P, and it does the best job converting to black and white, compared to the other cameras mentioned. Which … why would I do that if I have a M10M? Well, if you’re walking around with the M10, and you don’t have time to switch, it’s nice to know that it will do a decent job. 

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[AceVentura1986]

10 hours ago, pnwpotter said:

So I went back to the M10. 

It has less noise at 6400 ISO than either the M10-R or M10-P, and it does the best job converting to black and white, compared to the other cameras mentioned. Which … why would I do that if I have a M10M? Well, if you’re walking around with the M10, and you don’t have time to switch, it’s nice to know that it will do a decent job. 

I don’t see how this is possible re the M10 versus the M10P as both have exactly the same sensor. Granted, the M10R’s sensor is different so I’ll defer to you in that regard, but an M10P is really just a slightly more refined M10. The M10P has a quieter shutter, touch sensitive screen, perspective control and maybe a few other improvements along with a slightly different top plate but it is otherwise still an M10. There should be no difference, IMHO. 

[charlesphoto99]

14 hours ago, pnwpotter said:

It has less noise at 6400 ISO than either the M10-R or M10-P, and it does the best job converting to black and white, compared to the other cameras mentioned. 

M10 and M10-P are the exact same sensor. This is psychology at play. Reminds of the M9 days when people would swear a new firmware update improved the high iso (they never did). I think it was people were so scared of using higher iso's they only tried them to test when a firmware update came along. And lo and behold, it wasn't as bad as they were led to believe. 

[Stevejack]

On 12/17/2024 at 5:09 AM, LeAlain said:

This is exactly my concern, I don't want to use a higher shutter speed, because it freezes everything, there is no movement left. 

 

If you're not looking for tack-sharp images in the first place, then the slight different between the low + high megapixel sensor is not going to concern you. 

I do a reasonable amount of low shutter speed work with the M11, it's not really an issue. Photographs are about feeling, not absolute sharpness - so unless you have a critical need for pin sharp pixels at 1/60sec and below, I wouldn't let it concern you.

The M11 is the equal to any previous M camera when it comes to panning too, so if you're interested in movement don't let resolution put you off. 

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[borisk]

I owned the M10 Mono and now the M11 Mono. I prefer the feel of using the M10, but the M11 offers more than I need, and I plan to keep it for a very long time.

One thing I will say is that with Mono cameras, you don't need to worry about shutter speeds to avoid blur, thanks to their ISO capabilities.

Here's how I use it: Auto ISO up to 25,000 and 50,000 ISO on the manual setting of the ISO wheel. My minimum shutter speed is 1/500, and I set the aperture on the lens, of course.

It's very hard to take a blurry shot with this setup. If I want a slower shutter speed, I just rotate the shutter speed wheel.

You might ask, "Yeah, but won't my ISO be high at 1/500?" Yes, it will, but that's exactly why I got the Monochrom camera—I want to see that fine grain (which is quiet hard at times 😂).

Edited January 6 by borisk

[pgh]

On 1/6/2025 at 1:43 AM, Stevejack said:

If you're not looking for tack-sharp images in the first place, then the slight different between the low + high megapixel sensor is not going to concern you. 

I do a reasonable amount of low shutter speed work with the M11, it's not really an issue. Photographs are about feeling, not absolute sharpness - so unless you have a critical need for pin sharp pixels at 1/60sec and below, I wouldn't let it concern you.

The M11 is the equal to any previous M camera when it comes to panning too, so if you're interested in movement don't let resolution put you off. 

 

Who's not looking for sharp images, sometimes? And if not, then what's the point of high resolution at all?

You're right in that photographs are about feeling, but it's not that uncommon for the feeling of a photograph to be overcome by the technical flaws that draw the eye away from the supposed reason for the photograph's existence in the first place. I like blurry photos as much as the next person (which is to say, on occasion, when transcendent) but a camera that becomes an unintentional impediment to the intended result is not a great tool. There's a place for high resolution, slow photography - absolutely. That place tends to be on a tripod, or in an amazingly ergonomic body with great image stabilization, like in an X2d.

The design of the M is to be off the tripod. It's not always necessary, but really, in a lot of situations the specs of the M11 work against the ethos of the M line - I'm not the only one who's experienced that. If you've got the steady hands of a surgeon without really thinking twice then by all means, enjoy all it can offer. 

[Stevejack]

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14 hours ago, pgh said:

Who's not looking for sharp images, sometimes? And if not, then what's the point of high resolution at all?

I was specifically replying to LeAlain's post where he said "I don't want to use a higher shutter speed, because it freezes everything, there is no movement left."
I was assuming that the almost imperceptible difference in sharpness between the two sensors at the affected shutter speeds (1/15 to 1/60 ish)would be here nor there in a phtograph aiming to show movement.
But I get what you're saying yes - even as someone who often turns off IBIS on other cameras I definitely think that if Leica can manage it, they should squeeze it into the M. It's sure useful to have when you do what a sharp background and movement in the picture, but don't want to be restricted by a tripod.

 

On 1/6/2025 at 8:46 PM, borisk said:

One thing I will say is that with Mono cameras, you don't need to worry about shutter speeds to avoid blur, thanks to their ISO capabilities.

I think what LeAlain means is that he doesn't want to avoid the blur from subjects moving - just avoid the visible effects of camera shake.

Edited January 8 by Stevejack