Best M mount lenses for bokeh, separation, and character

[Altair]

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I am new to the world of Leica, and interested to hear your thoughts on what would you describe as the finest lenses for:

Bokeh

Separation 

Character ( regardless of sharpness or other aspects..just an interesting character)

Bonus question, which lenses would be your ultimate hero lens. The lens that has overall qualities that allow you to capture the world as you see it.

As I said, I an new, but i got the 50 0.95 Noctilux as I believed it wad the best for both separation and the best in terms of the quality of its bokeh.

 

For character, I got the 35 steel rim reissue.

 

Hero lens, 35 APO. The pictures are just perfect with this lens especially for street photography.

 

Really looking forward to your answers.

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[3D-Kraft.com]

Best overall packages (in my opinion):

• Thypoch Simera 50/1.4 ASPH
• Voigtlander Nokton 40/1.2 ASPH

Most characterful (in my opinion): Noctilux 50/1.0.

[Almizilero]

You already have some of the best lenses in the Leica arsenal. Why get more? Use what you have and when you get to the point where you find something you cannot achieve with what you got, go for it.

Regarding your questions (I can't say I tested all lenses, so this is just from my very limited experience):

Bokeh: Hard to say, some prefer classic “busy” bokeh, some prefer smooth bokeh. I really like the 50 Summilux V2 in this regard.
Separation: 35/2 APO. 35/2 King of Bokeh. 75/1.5 Nokton. Leica Q (not a lens, I know... so: Voigtländer 28/2 Ultron).
Character: 50 Summilux V2 again. LLL Speed Panchro 50/2. Summilux 35/1.4 V2 (but you already got the Steel Rim Reissue, so ...).
Hero: 35 APO

Final thought: I have yet to find a Leica lens that is not in some way interesting. The M mount has such a wealth of modern and legacy lenses and all are special in one way or another.

[Altair]

Oh no I am.definately not getting any more, at least not for a very long time. My setup is just what I need and I have allot of work to master them. If anything i am trying to reduce to only using the 50mm so I develop the right muscle memory and get the right shot everytime, then move on to my other lenses.

 

I am very curious what others think of the Leica lens line up though. 

[Altair]

Thank you fir sharing your thoughts. 

[fil-m]

It is an interesting question but tough to answer! It all depends on what you are trying to achieve... Which leads to a specific appreciation of what lens could fit by providing the expected signature in terms of bokeh and separation.

The Noct 50/1 creates in my view, timeless portraits and candid snapshots. At its widest aperture, the slightly OOF areas blend nicely with the in focus areas creating a unique signature, almost emotional. At the extreme opposite, the Noctilux 75 is so sharp, creating striking pictures especially when shot under the right conditions.

The Lux 28 contrast is instantly recognisable (to me) due to the separation effect it creates. Quite "standout". The Summilux v2 is also stimulating, with its glowy character, giving its personality to each picture with a very strong fingerprint at its widest aperture. And the APO35 is perfect for street shots with its buttery transitions even at lower apertures, making the composition stand out.

I can continue but I'll stop here Only to end up by saying that each lens has its personality and as a tool, must fit the desired effect.  

[RexGig0]

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Bokeh: Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. 

Separation: Well, I have been so satisfied with the overall performance of my Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, I have not looked further into this specific factor.

Character: Summilux-M 50mm ASPH.

Hero: Summilux-M 50mm ASPH.

More on Bokeh: I like smooth bokeh. This means the entire character of the background blur, not simply “bokeh balls,” or other limited aspects of background blur. I do not normally like images with “busy” or “swirly” bokeh, or “soap bubbles,” though in limited doses, in the right setting, these can be nicely done.

On this “hero lens” thing, well, I feel that I started at the top, when I added the Leica M system, with a pre-owned Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, and, a new M10, in April 2018, a post-retirement self-gift. I had done the on-line research, looking at sample images, over a period of several years. I had looked into multiple lenses, and multiple camera systems. There had been a conflict, whether to buy a “character” lens, or a “super-telephoto” lens, for serious bird photography, on Nikon DSLR cameras, which my wife and I both used. A right rotator cuff injury, while moving heavy debris after Hurricane Harvey, in late 2017, had caused me to indefinitely suspend shooting with long, heavy lenses, so, it made no sense to continue shopping for 600mm f/4 or 400mm f/2.8 “hero” DSLR lenses. This created the budgetary opportunity to buy into the Leica M system. My pre-owned Summilux, and a new M10, cost considerably less than either of the super-telephoto Nikon lenses I/we had been considering.

So, at age 56.5, I started using the Leica M system. By age 57, my shoulder had healed, and was being re-strengthened, but, I felt no urge to buy either of those heavy, expensive Nikon lenses, to chase birds. Now, at age 63, I still use DSLRs, for nature photography, but, we do not need the “super telephoto” class of lenses, and have aged-out of wanting to carry their weight. I still favor the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH, as my “hero” lens, and do not believe that I “settled for less.” Those super-telephoto lenses would have shot technically “perfect” images, but, I was ready to shoot images with “character.”

Money cannot buy a “more heroic” M-mount lens, for me, than the Summilux-M 50mm ASPH. A Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH would have a similar Peter Karbe design team “character,” would render a reasonably similar background blur, and would provide another stop of available light, in low-light conditions, but, would not be “better,” or more heroic, just a supplement/complement. The Close Focus of a Version II of the Summilux-M ASPH would not really be more useful, because I already have an APO Summicron-M 75mm ASPH, which has a Maximum Magnification specification that lets it do, at 0.7m, what the 50 ASPH II does at its Minimum Focusing Distance.

 

Edited November 28, 2024 by RexGig0

[evikne]

4 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

Imagine browsing a forum where every single OP's question is answered thoroughly and completely multiple times through the decades, with samples and experienced users' help and all you need to do is just do some minor browsing with the search bar.... Hope they make such a forum at some point, would be awesome.

In this case, I think the OP has already answered the questions himself, and has even bought the lenses. 😄

[raizans]

Sawtooth bokeh because of aperture blade geometry eliminates a lot of Leica lenses from contention for my tastes. The 50mm Summilux ASPH wide open still sets the standard, and the 28mm Summicron ASPH is pretty smooth. The KoB is great at f/5.6 but harsh wide open. The 35mm Summilux AA is good at f/2.8 because it doesn’t have a sawtooth aperture. The 50mm Summicron collapsible is ok.

[FrozenInTime]

4 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Imagine browsing a forum where every single OP's question is answered thoroughly and completely multiple times through the decades, with samples and experienced users' help and all you need to do is just do some minor browsing with the search bar.... Hope they make such a forum at some point, would be awesome.

AI chatbot as a solution ?

[hansvons]

On 11/28/2024 at 7:28 AM, Altair said:

which lenses would be your ultimate hero lens. The lens that has overall qualities that allow you to capture the world as you see it.

That would be the 35mm Summicron ASPH. It’s the poster child of a workhorse lens for the M system. Why? It balances optical performance and an upbeat character into an unbeatable, ergonomic package.

This thread is mostly about speciality lenses like Noctiluxes and other super speed lenses. But due to their specs, they come with downsides inherent with their design. One is size that increases inevitably when a super speed design is highly corrected. Highly corrected Summiluxes and Noctiluxes are at the edge of size and weight to work ergonomically on an M camera (or arguably already beyond). A lens like the 35mm APO Lanthar left the M space in size ans weight, and is basically a manual mirrorless camera lens that also works with Leica range finder cameras.

The Steel Rim reissue size fits squarely into the M System’s design philosophy because it’s a widely uncorrected design built on a legacy double Gauss lens setup that is highly effective for size and weight, less so for performance, and it tells. It glows spectacularly at f/1.4 resulting from many uncorrected design “issues” and turns into a more regular lens when stopped down. But at f/2, it’s still far from what the above-mentioned Summicron ASPH delivers at the same aperture. And even at f/4 corners are not on par. Also, the argument can be made that older Summilux design’s 1-stop increase of light “sensitivity” only occurs in the center, as vignetting is visibly more pronounced compared with more modern ASPH designs.

(Note: I’m the least person shooting brick walls to evaluate corner sharpness and do appreciate a lens’ character very much.)

The best example for the “Super Speed Fallacy” in Leica land is the neglect in terms of sales of the Summarit line that Leica introduced when they finally made the jump to digital M cameras. Back then, Leica introduced the Summarits in various focal lengths with a slightly reduced speed of f/2.4 to offer Leicaristis a more budget-friendly line of neat, highly ergonomic and well-corrected lenses. The 35mm Summarit in both versions (they share the identical optical formula) is arguably the best-corrected lens after the 35mm Summicron APO in the Leica stable. It’s brilliant for landscape photography, does not fear to be pointed directly to the sun, shows incredible contrast and is the smallest and lightest ASPH 35mm lens. A gem and sleeper, with an interesting downbeat character.

So, in terms of “capturing the world how you see it”, the 35mm Summarit wins when size, weight, and budget matter. And it does that by a far shot. With 35mm it “looks” like we do regarding field of view, it’s hard/impossible to flare (like our eyes), it’s sharp to the edges in (like our eyes in the 35mm field of view) and it’s super quick to focus with the shortest focus throw of today’s Leica lenses (almost as quick as our eyes).

So here you have it: the least expensive Leica lens is arguably the most appealing one when you want to show the world as you see it. 

 

 

 

Edited November 29, 2024 by hansvons

[Pika898]

Bokeh: Voigtlander F1 VM 50mm

Hero: Leica 35 APO

Character: I’m not a character lens person 

[mdg1371]

19 hours ago, Al Brown said:

Imagine browsing a forum where every single OP's question is answered thoroughly and completely multiple times through the decades, with samples and experienced users' help and all you need to do is just do some minor browsing with the search bar.... Hope they make such a forum at some point, would be awesome.

Promise me you will never stop posting. 😂

[DigitalHeMan]

22 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

AI chatbot as a solution ?

You say that in jest maybe, but I’ve chatted with ChatGPT so much that it has learnt all of my lenses and suggests which ones to take with me when I use it for travel itinerary planning 😜

[evikne]

Quote

 

I am new to the world of Leica, and interested to hear your thoughts on what would you describe as the finest lenses for:

Bokeh

Separation 

Character ( regardless of sharpness or other aspects..just an interesting character)

Bonus question, which lenses would be your ultimate hero lens. The lens that has overall qualities that allow you to capture the world as you see it.

 

ChatGPT:

Welcome to the Leica world! Leica lenses are revered for their craftsmanship and optical performance. Here are my thoughts on some of the finest lenses for your criteria:

1. Bokeh

• Leica Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH: Known for its dreamy, creamy bokeh, this lens is a legend for creating stunning depth and out-of-focus rendering. The f/0.95 aperture provides incredible subject isolation.
• Leica Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH (FLE): While wider, it delivers beautiful, smooth bokeh for environmental portraits or street photography.

2. Separation

• Leica Summicron-M 75mm f/2 ASPH: This lens excels in subject separation with sharpness and subtle transitions into out-of-focus areas, ideal for portraiture.
• Leica APO-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH: With its impeccable rendering and sharpness, this lens offers perfect separation, creating images with a "pop."

3. Character

• Leica Summarit-M 50mm f/1.5 (Vintage): A classic lens with a unique, vintage look, offering a combination of softness wide open and painterly character.
• Leica Thambar-M 90mm f/2.2: Designed specifically for artistic softness and ethereal rendering, this lens is a character lover’s dream.
• Leica Summicron 35mm f/2 (Pre-ASPH): Known for its warm rendering and lower contrast, this lens has a timeless filmic character.

Bonus: The Hero Lens

If I had to choose an ultimate all-around hero lens:

• Leica Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH: It balances sharpness, bokeh, and versatility with just enough character to remain distinctive. This lens is legendary for its ability to handle diverse lighting conditions and subjects, making it a true storyteller’s tool.

Do you have a specific focal length or type of photography in mind? I’d be happy to tailor recommendations further!

[3D-Kraft.com]

Interesting to see, that this question - although not explicitely asked for the system around M-mount - is only answered by the generative AI for the M-system. By the way: The "Hero" lens for ChatGPT o1-preview and for Claude AI 3.5 Sonnet is the 35 Summilux ASPH.

For me, "the world of Leica" (reduced to M-mount for interchangeable lenses) includes also M-mount lenses of other brands and lenses that are newer than the date, when the AI model was trained...

Edited November 29, 2024 by 3D-Kraft.com

[shirubadanieru]

Character & Bokeh: Summicron 50mm v1, Summilux 50mm v1/2, Summilux 35mm v1/v2, Summicron 35mm 8 elements

Hero lens: Summicron 35mm 8e, Summicron 35mm v4, Summilux 35mm v2

[shirubadanieru]

I agree; if I had to pick one single lens forever it’d be the 8 elements. Unfortunately the price increased too much and mint copies are quite hard to find 

Edited November 30, 2024 by shirubadanieru

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[costa43]

These are the lenses I’ve tried

Bokeh - Noctilux f1

separation - 50mm Apo

character - Noctilux f1 & 35mm Summilux v2

hero lens - 35mm Summilux v2 

The 8e is my next lens to try as this one really interests me and could challenge 

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I am completely unbothered with flawless copy of the LLL 35.

Looks like an old, yet sharp (relatively) classic 35mm Summicron. Nice!

In my above post about super speed lenses etc. I forgot to mentioned that the medium—whether film or digital—plays a significant role on how one perceives at lens’ character and what that particular lens can do for you. I use my 35mm Summicron ASPH and 35mm Summarit on film.

But the chances are high that I’ll get an M10 for an upcoming 4-year project where I need a camera that welcomes me to work with it but also allows for short turnarounds for campaigns, social media, etc. As this is a digital M my current assessment on 35mm lenses will be challenged.

I have a Nokton 35mm 1.4 SC v2 on my shelf waiting to be used. On film it’s too soft for me from f/1.4 to f/2.4, as this medium loves distinct sharpness to get the best out of it. However, with digital sensors that’s quite different. So, on an M10 the Nokton could satisfy my taste at f/2, as it’s basically a Summilux v1 copy (and nicely machined).

But I must admit that I’m a sucker for Leica lenses in terms of colour rendition and flare shapes. And the Nokton renders colder and the flares look different. Also, there seems to be something going on in vignetting that looks like a subtle shift from a not-so-cold centre to cooler corners. Leica lenses of some vintage render also relatively cool compared to modern designs (and skin tone can benefit) but not as cold as this particular Nokton (or the 35mm Color Scopar, which I tried to like but sold relatively quickly, another story). I tried the Nokton on an SL2-S and the images looked outright ugly. All of the above is amplified to the worse and a strange micro contrast at f/1.4-f/2.0 appears that can be best described as granular or sandy. On an M sensor that is different, so there is hope.

I feel there is no shortcut in M land when it comes to lenses and budget. LLL seems to be an exception of the rule (I’m not dissing Voigtländer here!) but I’m not sure whether I want to take the risk again bothering months with a suboptimal solution. So a 35mm Summilux v2 could be high on the list. 

Edited November 30, 2024 by hansvons