alphonse2501 Posted November 14, 2024 Share #1  Posted November 14, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) this is the result of KEH gambling: I got one of the first batch of Summarex (593016, no lens caps and hood). Based on derleicaman posted the delivery record, this one copy was under the order of "Berlin 29777" and delivered on Aug 16, 1943. This is good news, but it comes with bad news: it got optics element separation. I attached some photos and made one short video (as YouTube Shorts). Now I wonder: is this kind of separation repairable? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5698342'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 14, 2024 Posted November 14, 2024 Hi alphonse2501, Take a look here Summarex 8.5cm element separation. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jerzy Posted November 15, 2024 Share #2  Posted November 15, 2024 yes, it is. But who can and wants to do it is another question. It is not trivial. Both cemented elementes needs to be taken out of the mount, separated (by heating), canada balsam cleaned, new UV glue applied, lenses fixed again in the mount. Coating (if there is still any) from this time is very delicate, most probably it will go away. Check with well known names within RFEPAIR SPECIALIST thread. Picture below where the separation is , I believe Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5698627'>More sharing options...
derleicaman Posted November 15, 2024 Share #3 Â Posted November 15, 2024 Congratulations on picking up this wonderful lens. The exterior is in wonderful shape, better than my own black Summarex. Plus it is a wartime lens! Very unfortunate about the lens separation. Jerzy gave you some wonderful insight, and from the diagram, you can see the extreme curvature of the elements. Not sure who would be willing to work on this. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted November 15, 2024 Author Share #4  Posted November 15, 2024 2 hours ago, derleicaman said: Congratulations on picking up this wonderful lens. The exterior is in wonderful shape, better than my own black Summarex. Plus it is a wartime lens! Very unfortunate about the lens separation. Jerzy gave you some wonderful insight, and from the diagram, you can see the extreme curvature of the elements. Not sure who would be willing to work on this. Thanks to jerzy and derleicaman. I will try to ask DAG for recement work, although I guess he can't do this type of job, too. Meanwhile I wonder what the missing front cap / hood looks like and find someone listed one lens in eBay (593008). This one does suffer (minor) separation. The black wartime front cap has slots for hood pins and post war chrome front cap doesn't. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerzy Posted November 15, 2024 Share #5 Â Posted November 15, 2024 in the past CRR Luton (UK) was able to recement, possoible cameraworks (UK) are doing it, at least they recement main prisms in M. I am doing it but only for smalles, less expensive lenses (Elmar, Hektor, Summar, etc). I would nit dare to work on the lens that is such rarity as Summarex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted November 17, 2024 Author Share #6  Posted November 17, 2024 I want to test Summarex in M10-R. RF patch does not move M10-R and then find out RF coupler has bent. This part is very hard to get deform, how can it happen? Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5702187'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted November 18, 2024 Share #7  Posted November 18, 2024 Advertisement (gone after registration) recently I had on my table a chromed Summarex with exactely the same problem - while on IIIc it was on the edge (rangefinder was working) on my M3 it did not couple anymore (left photo). Reason why it was done is unknown to me, could have been corrected. While bending back one need to be carefull not to break it, it is brass but rather thin Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5702709'>More sharing options...
TomB_tx Posted November 18, 2024 Share #8  Posted November 18, 2024 8 hours ago, jerzy said: recently I had on my table a chromed Summarex with exactely the same problem - while on IIIc it was on the edge (rangefinder was working) on my M3 it did not couple anymore (left photo). Reason why it was done is unknown to me, could have been corrected. While bending back one need to be carefull not to break it, it is brass but rather thin Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! I wonder if when mounting on an M body if the cam "probe" could fit under the roller as the bayonet was turned. The thin brass might bend before damaging the roller arm (which would be bad.) The possibility might be avoided by setting the lens to closest focus before mounting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted November 20, 2024 Author Share #9  Posted November 20, 2024 Sent the lens to DAG today. Don said he can take a look at it. I tried to mount protection filter and found out filter thread had damaged. Unable to use filter so I pick a cap from a honey bottle. Rear cap was from Jupiter-12. In addition, I found there have mystical engraved number fours on inner sides of each of hood pins. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5705233'>More sharing options...
jerzy Posted November 20, 2024 Share #10 Â Posted November 20, 2024 Would you keep us (me) updated if Don will cure the separation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted November 20, 2024 Author Share #11 Â Posted November 20, 2024 8 hours ago, jerzy said: Would you keep us (me) updated if Don will cure the separation? Sure. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Rogers Posted November 27, 2024 Share #12  Posted November 27, 2024 Jason Lane is a professional optical designer and technician based in the USA. I think he would be able to repair this correctly. Contrary to a previous post, heat isn't always a desirable way of separating cemented lens pieces, due to the risk of fracture. Soaking the affected doublet in a solvent such as Eg methylene chloride is slower, but, it is also a safer, way of parting the pieces. And being a mid 1940s example, surely, balsam must have been used to join the pieces, as opposed to more difficult to penetrate newer UV cure polyester adhesives. Ie. it ought to be eminently possible to split the doublet via purely chemical means and thus, avoid the risk of destroying a historically important (and probably irreplaceable) part of such a rare lens. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted February 28 Author Share #13 Â Posted February 28 Update: Don successed. Â Quote Summarex 85mm lens- recemented inner lens element group, cleaned, lubed, & adjusted complete overhaul- Â 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted February 28 Author Share #14 Â Posted February 28 Update 2, I asked Don question about cement: Â Quote Leitz during WW11 used Canada Balsam found in some kind of tree sap that is not only a good cement but it does not cause light to change when it goes through the balsam. And because its organic it can be heated up to soften & separate it which is how the 2 lens elements were 100% separated, then the balsam is removed with acetone & new style lens cement is used and cured with ultra-violet light. Â Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted March 1 Share #15 Â Posted March 1 Seems that the lens fall on the soil, this lens is relatively heavy and I think unscrewing it had escaped from the hand/fingers of the owner the three things were damaged; lens, focus finger and the filter ring/thread 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc_braconi Posted March 1 Share #16  Posted March 1 On 11/18/2024 at 5:10 AM, jerzy said: recently I had on my table a chromed Summarex with exactely the same problem - while on IIIc it was on the edge (rangefinder was working) on my M3 it did not couple anymore (left photo). Reason why it was done is unknown to me, could have been corrected. While bending back one need to be carefull not to break it, it is brass but rather thin Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! It need to be hotted with a torch before tempting to make it back to tis original shape, it is bronze, Bronze is a copper alloy with tin as the main alloying element (unlike brass which is composed mainly of copper and zinc). The main characteristics of bronze are good wear resistance, moderate corrosion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pgk Posted March 5 Share #17 Â Posted March 5 The problems look very much as though they were caused by impact damage (the lens has probably been dropped). Glad DAG can fix such things which require very precise realignment. I have had this done but as a lunchtime special by an optical manufacturer because I knew someone. They specified to precision with which they realigned the two glass elements and also commented that one element was fairly opaque to UV which was used to cure the adhesive! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alphonse2501 Posted March 7 Author Share #18  Posted March 7 Received the lens. No seperation. The next quest is find the hood and cap for it. ORQPO/12525 is the only option since filter thread damage isn;t repairable. If $500 for chrome isn;t crazy enough, there have one black hood only priced $4400. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5768523'>More sharing options...
PG Black nickel Posted March 7 Share #19  Posted March 7 The solution is to buy a chrome lens cap ans hood, remove the chrome and give it a black patina with the appropriate products... no one will hold it against you! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/416343-summarex-85cm-element-separation/?do=findComment&comment=5768604'>More sharing options...
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