reddawn Posted January 28, 2008 Share #221 Posted January 28, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Well I'm going in the opposite direction to you folks. The M8 menu may not be perfect but I like the flat simple structure of it. I'm an oldish guy who spent 35+ years taking photographs with a Nikon F and a Nikkormat. I sold those cameras (mistake) when I got my first M8. Managed all those years to enjoy my photography with no menus. How many pages is the D3 instruction manual? I have heard that its is something of a tome. Jeff Jeff, you can set aperture, shutter speed and ISO without going into the menus at all on the D3. Without taking your eye off the viewfinder. That's all one needs to shoot isn't it? Why do u need the menus? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 28, 2008 Posted January 28, 2008 Hi reddawn, Take a look here Any M8 users with Nikon D3 or d300 experience?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
billh Posted January 28, 2008 Share #222 Posted January 28, 2008 wow, i love your dogs!!!!!!!! Thanks Ryan. Today is Cody's first birthday, and he was particularly delighted with one of his toys, a multisided "ball" that makes crazy noises as it lurches wildly in all directions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billh Posted January 28, 2008 Share #223 Posted January 28, 2008 Does not matter how many pages, it is so intuitive that I almost never used the manual. Same here Peter. But when the M8 arrived I had a brief opportunity to test it on someone before they left, and I could not figure out how to get it set to RAW. I asked the question on this list and immediately had an answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 28, 2008 Share #224 Posted January 28, 2008 People............wake up! The menu banks of the Nikon bodies, be they D2X. D3 or D300 are made to allow one to choose a shooting style in an instant. It may take some time to set up a bank for daylight shooting, a different bank for flash, a different bank for low light shooting etc etc or whatever floats your boat, but once established, a bank allows you to do a one button switch from one shooting style to another........period. Franky I love it. I have spent a lot of time thinking through what I want, but having found it I want to be able to go back to it in zero time! i don't want to have to reinvent the wheel each time I need to use it. It is like using a scriipt in Photoshop to do something repetitive like saving a file to a WEB based small fille in SRBG for transmission to other internet users. What you don't need is to replicate the process each and every time you want to deal with a new image. So the script is developed to allow a simple one step click to get the file where you need it. This is the way I view shooting banks. It is a script to get you where you need to be for a specific purpose; No more, no less. Just my opinion.......Your MMv. Best to all Woody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 29, 2008 Share #225 Posted January 29, 2008 People............wake up! The menu banks of the Nikon bodies, be they D2X. D3 or D300 are made to allow one to choose a shooting style in an instant. It may take some time to set up a bank for daylight shooting, a different bank for flash, a different bank for low light shooting etc etc or whatever floats your boat, but once established, a bank allows you to do a one button switch from one shooting style to another........period. Franky I love it. I have spent a lot of time thinking through what I want, but having found it I want to be able to go back to it in zero time! i don't want to have to reinvent the wheel each time I need to use it. It is like using a scriipt in Photoshop to do something repetitive like saving a file to a WEB based small fille in SRBG for transmission to other internet users. What you don't need is to replicate the process each and every time you want to deal with a new image. So the script is developed to allow a simple one step click to get the file where you need it. This is the way I view shooting banks. It is a script to get you where you need to be for a specific purpose; No more, no less. Just my opinion.......Your MMv. Best to all Woody Well, while I fully agree with your thoughts, you should be fair and state that user profiles or image banks or however you call this are something available in all top DSLRs today. The way to set them up and to switch in between them might be different, but they are around since years now. So this is really no rocket science. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 29, 2008 Share #226 Posted January 29, 2008 The difference is that it is absolutely clear what's included in a Nikon Shooting/Custom Bank - all the items in the corresponding menu but not what's included in a Leica User Profile - which selections from the single 22 entry menu is not (so far as I am aware) defined anywhere. Some of the functions in the menu should be separated out - Date and Time, Firmware Level, Reset, Language, Beep (probably). Even better, at least on the D3, you can define your own menu and place the items you need most often there for instant access. It's a complex but hugely capable camera and Nikon have made it easy to use. Sure the manual is 444 pages, but it's something to read while you are waiting for a plane, not waiting to go shooting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 29, 2008 Share #227 Posted January 29, 2008 Advertisement (gone after registration) Sure the manual is 444 pages, but it's something to read while you are waiting for a plane, not waiting to go shooting. I agree, this will shorten much of my time I have to spend in airports So actually another benefit ..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted January 29, 2008 Share #228 Posted January 29, 2008 Or you can read it instead of going shooting. Sorry couldn't resist that. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 29, 2008 Share #229 Posted January 29, 2008 Well, while I fully agree with your thoughts, you should be fair and state that user profiles or image banks or however you call this are something available in all top DSLRs today. The way to set them up and to switch in between them might be different, but they are around since years now. So this is really no rocket science. Peter i did not mean to imply that Nikon was the only DSLR to have shooting banks. I was referring to the poster's assertion that it took a spreadsheet for one to learn how to use them! My point was that shooting banks are a great convenience to most shooters and using them is anything but difficult! Sorry for any confusion Woody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrc Posted January 29, 2008 Share #230 Posted January 29, 2008 What we're seeing with the Leica is a first attempt at a menu system, and it is not mature, as Nikon's now is. Nikon also had some early menu problems, probably because it wasn't clear exactly how important menus can be. If Leica looked closely at the suggestions here (like Mark Norton's) and at what has been done by both Canon and Nikon, they could easily come up with a mature menu system for the M9. What we've got now is just an early run at a menu, by people who didn't fully understand (in an experienced way) what menus are all about. I think we may also may be seeing a kind of false "simplicity" concept with Leica. Nikon has massive menu systems, but most of the extended menus are not intended to be used on-the-fly. The menus simply allow you, after some study, to customize your camera. If you know what you want to do, working your way through the menus isn't that bad. If you don't know what you want to do, and are just sitting there looking at a giant menu schedule, they can be pretty confusing -- it'd be like trying to learn Photoshop without any photos to work on. But that's not what you do. Leica doesn't have the customizing feature. I'm not sure if it needs it -- I just use the Leica for general and fairly straight-forward shooting -- but some people may have some customization ideas that an extended menu set would help. The way it would work is, if you need the extended menus, there they are. Otherwise, ignore them. You could even have an electronic switch which would hide the extended menus, so that all you'd normally see is the top set. Leica's false "simplicity" concept also led to things like the little circular LCD on the top, reminiscent of the rewind knob, but frankly, a non-aesthetic backlit rectangular window with five or six more sets of information would have been more practical -- compensation, ISO, shutter speed, etc. The simplicity/aesthetic/tradition thing also led to the drop off-bottom plate, which, IMHO, is fairly dumb (but strangely likeable). Now that Leica has convinced its people that digital is okay, I hope their next focus is on a truly compact and practical rangefinder -- perhaps even with a one-light focus confirmation in the viewfinder, for people with old eyes or who use noctiluxes a lot. JC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
delander † Posted January 29, 2008 Share #231 Posted January 29, 2008 One of the problems I have with my 5D info screens is that I need to put my glasses on to read them. I don't shoot with my glasses on, M8 or DSLR. I can read the M8 menus without my glasses. The simple M8 menu goes with the simple operation of the camera. It all fits so well together. Jeff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted January 29, 2008 Share #232 Posted January 29, 2008 Jeff, you'll love the new D3 and D300 fonts then, much more readable than a D2x. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom0511 Posted January 29, 2008 Author Share #233 Posted January 29, 2008 Frienkly I dont have any problem with either menue (Nikon or Leica). Maybe some functions could be easier to access (I wish exposure comp on the M8 would be easier) but I think both are easy to understand and to use. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 29, 2008 Share #234 Posted January 29, 2008 Jeff, you'll love the new D3 and D300 fonts then, much more readable than a D2x. I am truly with Mark on this one. I love my M8's and have no plans to abandon them. But Leica needs to really look at what is possible with both the D3 andD300's and incorporate these into the M8! God these Nikons get what is possible with DSLR's. Frankly I love it. Let's try to get Leica to see it for what it is worth. come on Leica............Join the 21st century Woody Spedden Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptomsu Posted January 30, 2008 Share #235 Posted January 30, 2008 I am truly with Mark on this one. I love my M8's and have no plans to abandon them. But Leica needs to really look at what is possible with both the D3 andD300's and incorporate these into the M8! God these Nikons get what is possible with DSLR's. Frankly I love it. Let's try to get Leica to see it for what it is worth. come on Leica............Join the 21st century Woody Spedden It will not be possible in the current M8. This needs by any means to be a new design! And if a new design then it will most probably mean a FF design. At least if I were Leica I would not try to go for a revised M8-2, but for a new design. And then incorporate all the good things which are possible today. I am sure that part of the outstanding quality of the D300 / D3 is related to their 14bit color rendering. But this means much higher processing power and not sure if Leica can get this on the road. But I would hope so! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyspedden Posted January 30, 2008 Share #236 Posted January 30, 2008 It will not be possible in the current M8. This needs by any means to be a new design! And if a new design then it will most probably mean a FF design. At least if I were Leica I would not try to go for a revised M8-2, but for a new design. And then incorporate all the good things which are possible today. I am sure that part of the outstanding quality of the D300 / D3 is related to their 14bit color rendering. But this means much higher processing power and not sure if Leica can get this on the road. But I would hope so! Well with Leica's announcement today the M9 may be a very long way off or it will be served by an upgrade to the M8. It appears that the modular approach leica took with the M8 anticiptated many possible upgrades over time. If they can keep the upgrade prices reasonable we all may still be using our original, now upgraded, M8's for many years to come. Woody Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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