A simple reply to one of my threads made me realize I'm not a Photographer

[lencap]

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Greetings!

A few posts ago someone replied to a thread of mine with this comment:  "You seriously have to make up your mind.  There are many threads of yours which camera/lens to choose."   (Thank you Olaf).

I've been thinking about this since reading it, and the conclusions I've come to aren't what I expected.  As he notes I've had many systems over the last decade or more including Fujifilm X, Nikon Z/D5600, along with several Leicas on M, Q and SL platforms.  Each was bought, I thought, to accomplish my picture taking "style".  At times that emphasized lightweight portability, image quality above all else, flexibility or a mix of these to some degree.  The reality of how I used these camera systems after buying them was quite different.

I realized that I am more in love with the gear than the photography.  I've taken several classes/trainings/video workshops over the years, but basically I really don't shoot very much.  The majority of my picture taking is done with an iPhone 14 Pro, which I purchased to be with me all the time as a handy tool, not a primary camera platform.  I also found that in my full Photoshop, Apple Photos libraries the iPhone pictures outnumber the total of all the other images I've taken by a large amount.  

I've can't help but notice that the iPhone pictures are all heavily influenced by essentially AI control of the camera/image.  This trend seems to be creeping into the Leica world as well with software "adjustments" to captured images (apparently improving the MTF results), along with intelligent algorithms employed when processing images.  I'm not necessarily against this trend, but wonder about paying for a "perfect" lens, only to find out that it may not be optically perfect, but relies upon AI to create the "perfect" result.  Given the cost of these products I guess a "hybrid" production process employing high optical quality, but enhancing it as needed to keep costs reasonable is a very valid business decision.  But if AI can do that increasingly effectively in the future, where does that lead us?

I'm on a "wait list" for the new Q3 43, reasoning that since my preferred focal length is 50mm, an integrated lightweight camera body, that still allows me to manually focus with real distance markers and adds macro capability, image stabilization, cropping and far more will be nirvana.  But how much of that nearly perfect MTF chart of the APO lens is inherent to the glass lens, and how much is AI correcting various aberrations?  

The Leica Q3 default "Zoom" choices automatically crop the image as needed to fill the frame the way I want the image to look - essentially similar to the different zoom modes standard on the iPhone.  The iPhone adds the ability to select 3 different lenses (Apple's automated version of the "Tri-Elmar"?), another variation of the Q macro option.  Pixel binning is a common practice as well, as it now is on the M11/Q3 variations that provide variable MB image capture.

The phone also integrates well with all types of devices/platforms/media content making sharing images effortless.  And adding third party apps is simple and effectively opens the camera controls to more serious photography options.  The result is that I've prioritized convenience over image creation, but when I look at the iPhone final results they aren't that much different from shooting with some of my images shot on nearly $10K worth of gear.  That was quite shocking.

My point isn't that everyone should own an iPhone, but sadly the conclusion to me was that I spend far more time reading and posting about cameras and photography than I do actually participating in photography.  I can't remember the last time I actually printed an image and held it tangibly in my hand.  And I think that's why I find myself always looking for the "latest and greatest" (I'm on a wait list for the Q3 43).  I'm chasing the technical side of photography not the artistic side.  And that choice seems to be a never ending merry-go-round of GAS.

So, as I sit here with a Leica SL2-S 50mm Summicron Bundle, an almost unused Nikon D5600 with kit lens, and the iPhone, I wonder where I "went off the rails"?  How did the simple joy I felt of taking black/white film images on whatever gear was available morph into a fixation of "the gear", convincing myself that "pride of ownership" was more important than actually creating photographs?

I'm wondering now what is the next step?  Do I resign myself to a phone as my primary photo tool?  Do I buy a cheap used film camera and shoot black and white film for a while to get my "mojo" back?  Do I buy the new Q3 43, convincing myself that all will be well if I have a fixed focal length integrated camera with an APO lens (even if it seems that the patent is owned by Panasonic)?  Do I go back to the M body, even with cataracts and declining vision, with little ability to have confidence that I can actually capture focus and frame the image correctly?  (Truth be told the M platform gave me the most engaging feeling of them all).

I didn't expect such a "philosophical" reaction in response to a simple reply to one of my posts, but that's where I am now, and it's a bit uncomfortable. 

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[Olaf_ZG]

I guess I am allowed to react…

GAS is a nice thing, but it doesn’t really improve your photography. Knowing what you want to photograph does.

When I bought my first Leica three years ago (a Q), I was not sure what I wanted. Now, many cameras later, I know what I want, and I selected the gear based on that. Since then, I honestly don’t really care about other lenses or bodies, as what I have is good enough.

Ofcourse sometimes GAS comes up, hasselblad looks great etc, but then I look what I want to photograph and what I need for that.

Personally, I don’t like photographing with an iphone. That why I will buy the new Q. But that’s me.

Find what gives you joy, and act on that. If it’s gas, so be it (if you can afford it). But I think you need to make up what is your photographic topic.

[lykaman]

I suppose the OP might think about getting rid of all his/her camera equipment except 1camera/1lens. Thereafter stick strictly to zero Posts on any forum. Do some actual photography, we all have some photographic capabilities… 😉

[BernardC]

First things first, there's absolutely nothing wrong with using a phone as your main camera. In a way, it puts you at the cutting edge of contemporary photography!

33 minutes ago, lencap said:

This trend seems to be creeping into the Leica world as well with software "adjustments" to captured images (apparently improving the MTF results), along with intelligent algorithms employed when processing images.  I'm not necessarily against this trend, but wonder about paying for a "perfect" lens, only to find out that it may not be optically perfect, but relies upon AI to create the "perfect" result.

There's a big difference between what an iPhone (or other brands) do to images and software optical corrections. Lens design involves a lot of compromises. "Old school" film lenses tried to minimize distortion at the expense of edge detail and vignetting. Digital-only lenses can use a different compromise where distortion is corrected mathematically, and edge detail ends-up clearer than it would otherwise be. There's a strong tendency to think that the old way was better, but software correction is just a different way to optimize the tools at your disposal. Besides, the SL system lets you choose between a variety of lenses that are optimized in different ways.

 

As for your self-doubt, the best solution is to find a project. It could be documenting your grandchildren, or it could be an abstract fine art concept, or something else. Your project should tell you what equipment you need, not the other way around.

[lencap]

Olaf -

I hope you realize how much I appreciated your reply to my earlier post.  I had been unaware of why I was constantly hopping from one system to another and didn't realize that although it was partly GAS, it was really frustration at not investing the time to learn the systems I was using and then abandoning them when I couldn't make them work the way I wanted them to.  Thanks for helping me to see what was right in front of me all along, but somehow I missed it.

[otto.f]

The funny and tragic thing is that your Eureka moment at the beginning of your post gets lost in nowhere land when you’re back in the mill of repeating GAS again which is not a problem itself but asking the Forum again what you should buy. It seems that if we answer the mill starts turning again. 

Edited October 7, 2024 by otto.f

[Dazzajl]

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It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter if you’re a snapper, a collector, a chaser, a comparer or any other definition we could make up. 
 

It’s your personal journey and if it brings any measure of satisfaction, it’s right and valid. If you feel now is time to change things up, that’s great but you wouldn’t have got to this point without the journey. 
 

I suppose what I’m saying is that we could all be a little more understanding with ourselves. 

[lencap]

Otto - Sorry if I wasn't clear.  Those statements were related to thoughts I was having based on how I had been looking at things.  For now there doesn't seem to be any reason to rush into anything right now, including the new Q3 43.  I've got a perfectly fine camera kit- the SL2-S with the 50mm lens.  Seems like I should learn how to use all the features it has, and then use those features to see how well I can actually create the images/ideas I have in my mind.   My primary issue with the SL line is that the weight/size of the gear is larger/heavier than I would have preferred.  Part of that is likely related to my decision to purchase the 24-90 zoom with the camera when I first purchased it.  The 50mm lens I have now is far lighter in weight as well as being my favorite focal length.  Seems I'm kind of like Dorothy in the Wizard of OZ - "There's no place like home".  I had what I needed all along, I just needed to take the time to appreciate it.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, lencap said:

But how much of that nearly perfect MTF chart of the APO lens is inherent to the glass lens, and how much is AI correcting various aberrations?

Why does this matter?

If you want optical perfection, it comes at considerable cost and size. The M lenses don’t achieve that level of perfection as they are required to be small and to work across the M system. The advantage of a fixed lens is that it is perfectly tuned to the sensor, and to be compact, software corrections are applied. 

I strongly suspect that a hypothetical Q body with a 50 APO Summicron-M attached would not result in a better image. The Q3 43 isn’t a compromise, it’s the best result for the constraints (size, price and image quality).  In the end, it’s all about the image. The rest is the realm of Lloyd Chambers and the other guy. 
 

[Anbaric]

13 minutes ago, lencap said:

My primary issue with the SL line is that the weight/size of the gear is larger/heavier than I would have preferred.  Part of that is likely related to my decision to purchase the 24-90 zoom with the camera when I first purchased it.  The 50mm lens I have now is far lighter in weight as well as being my favorite focal length.

You have a Nikon that with batteries is half the weight of the SL2-S (or 60% of the weight of the Q3 43), probably with a surprisingly sharp and versatile kit lens. There is very little you can't shoot with this combination, so my advice would be to get out and use it. As a 50mm fan with serious GAS, you can always add a 50mm AF-S f/1.8 G, an extremely sharp lens with an aspherical element that will cost you less on ebay than the Leica store will charge you for a UV filter. And cancel the Q3 43, which is $7000 more than you should be spending on a camera you may never really use.

[Jeff S]

2 hours ago, lencap said:

 I can't remember the last time I actually printed an image and held it tangibly in my hand.  And I think that's why I find myself always looking for the "latest and greatest"

Do you own a printer?  That might be a better investment than another camera or lens.  It definitely helped concentrate my efforts, and end results, over the years. 
 

Of course the first step, as others suggested, is to have a vision (project or longer term) for taking photos, if that’s where you gain enjoyment.  Some gain enjoyment from the gear itself, or from myriad other parts of photography.  No right or wrong.

Jeff

[Tailwagger]

A photographer is someone who first sees the result in the mind's eye and then utilizes the gear at hand, pro and con, to realize it.  No gear change will alter anything worthwhile  unless and until you know what you're going to do before you do it.

 

Just now, Jeff S said:

Do you own a printer?  That might be a better investment than another camera or lens.  It definitely helped concentrate my efforts, and end results, over the years. 

Funny I was just this very instant about to suggest the same thing as a way to help realize the ability to visualize mentioned above.

[FrozenInTime]

2 hours ago, lencap said:

I wonder where I "went off the rails"?  How did the simple joy I felt of taking black/white film images on whatever gear was available morph into a fixation of "the gear", convincing myself that "pride of ownership" was more important than actually creating photographs?... Do I go back to the M body, even with cataracts and declining vision, with little ability to have confidence that I can actually capture focus and frame the image correctly?  (Truth be told the M platform gave me the most engaging feeling of them all).

( Apologies if you feel I've cut too much and have altered the context of the quote too an extreme )

I think we ( amateurs ) have all been lead a merry dance over the last 20 years of digital marketing, selling us on the need for lenses to cover every possible situation and produce hyper-sharp, over-saturated, poster sized images;  manipulated to be better than reality ever was. For professionals it is a different story, they have no choice but to follow client demands.

IMHO, the camera you want to carry with you is always the 'best' camera. The SL2 is not something you casually take shopping or discretely pull out at a café table, so the iphone wins. 

However the feel of the mechanical and optical film M camera, makes using it a pleasure and joy to use. However all too easy to ruin that by adding a Noctilux - massive and raises the desire for razor critical focus. Keep to a compact 35mm or 50mm and then, even with worst eyesight, f/8 and be there has you covered. Get scans of the negatives straight to your iphone or ipad for sharing and pick the good ones for printing 8x12". Keep carrying the phone with you for the everyday notebook and macro shots.

[IkarusJohn]

1 hour ago, Tailwagger said:

A photographer is someone who first sees the result in the mind's eye and then utilizes the gear at hand, pro and con, to realize it.  No gear change will alter anything worthwhile  unless and until you know what you're going to do before you do it.

Well said, and often forgotten. 

Understanding what your equipment will do, and building that into your visualisation is the secondary step - not the primary consideration. I have never favoured acquiring new equipment other than to meet a need (with the occasional slip-up), and I tend to sell my mistakes on (either didn’t need it or it didn’t meet my needs).  Still using the original Monochrom (for B&W, which I prefer) and SL (for zoom & telephoto).

Best advice I have received (from my father, as it happens), get out and take photos; learn your camera and how to make the most of what you have.
 

[tomasis7]

go to a mountain and spend 1 year. Clean off digital disturbances, lol

[Smogg]

12 minutes ago, tomasis7 said:

go to a mountain and spend 1 year. Clean off digital disturbances, lol

This old technique was used to get rid of a wife too😂 

[105012]

Hi lencap, my advice is free so that might also be its value, but go back to film, skip the scanning, set up a tiny darkroom, make contact sheets and prints. An M3 with 50 is all the camera gear you will ever need (end of GAS). Soon you will have a pile of prints, you will start sequencing them, then start noticing themes, then a book or gallery will enter your thoughts, and you will realise you have been a photographer all along.

[JoshuaR]

I think you have to decide what you want to photograph and build from there. 

For me, I’m a middle aged father of two. My photography is basically of my family. All my equipment decisions and preferences flow from that. It basically means a digital M with 28, 35, 50  I have other stuff, but it’s just for experimenting and some niche situations, and if I had to sell it it wouldn’t be a problem. But that’s because I know what I want to photograph.

If there isn’t some obvious focus for your photography, then you have to find one. I recommend this very short episode of the Lens Work podcast as an example of how easy this can be:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lenswork-photography-and-the-creative-process/id73802605?i=1000671581436

And I think it’s really true that printing helps. Because having even 8 x 10 prints of your pictures can really help you decide what interests you. I think you could do very well by shifting to a Q3 43, buying a printer like an Epson P700, and undertaking some low-key photo project. 

And good luck! I think all hobbyists feel like this from time to time. 

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Hallo,

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[FlashGordonPhotography]

4 hours ago, lencap said:

Otto - Sorry if I wasn't clear.  Those statements were related to thoughts I was having based on how I had been looking at things.  For now there doesn't seem to be any reason to rush into anything right now, including the new Q3 43.  I've got a perfectly fine camera kit- the SL2-S with the 50mm lens.  Seems like I should learn how to use all the features it has, and then use those features to see how well I can actually create the images/ideas I have in my mind.   My primary issue with the SL line is that the weight/size of the gear is larger/heavier than I would have preferred.  Part of that is likely related to my decision to purchase the 24-90 zoom with the camera when I first purchased it.  The 50mm lens I have now is far lighter in weight as well as being my favorite focal length.  Seems I'm kind of like Dorothy in the Wizard of OZ - "There's no place like home".  I had what I needed all along, I just needed to take the time to appreciate it.

1. You're really going to like the Q3-43. I can see that from reading your posts.

2. After 35 years as a working photographer I never ever once learned or used all the features of any camera except my M6 and XPan. On the others maybe half is normal.

3. It's your money and if you do no harm then do what you want. Each of use here derives enjoyment from the use of a camera in different ways. For some it's the gear. For others the process. And others the print. When your smiling, that's where you should be.

4. A reasonable small printer is a FANTASTIC suggestion. Get an A3+ printer and your photography will change forever. Start with A4 but buy the A3+ because you'll regret not getting a slightly larger one pretty soon.

Gordon

[rcusick]

I vowed as of June 30th never to make another gear related post again… I was getting caught in too many meaningless debates.  I only post and / or comment on actual photos now.  It’s helped clear my head.

I’ve also vowed no more new equipment for a year. Let’s see how the mid year resolutions hold….