Optical perfection in S4 lenses

[sincurves]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

A new lens lineup is reportedly being launched together with the S4 in 2025/2026. Given it’s a mirrorless camera I fear the new lenses will require the same kind of in-camera digital correction as Q and SL. I do hope this is not the case, although I understand the end result may be excellent. It just rubs me the wrong way knowing it’s a calculated/adjusted image and not what actually hit the sensor. Maybe I’m just getting old and grumpy.

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[Pieter12]

There is a lot of speculation in those statements. Just the facts, please. There is no S4 at this point, nor any lenses.

[Jon Warwick]

8 hours ago, sincurves said:

Given it’s a mirrorless camera I fear the new lenses will require the same kind of in-camera digital correction as Q and SL.

Are you sure that's the case for all the SL lenses? I've seen examples of where the optical coding was kept and also stripped out when using the SL 35mm APO, and it made basically no difference whatsoever to distortion, with or without the software correction, such was the inbuilt excellence of that lens. The Q, including the 43mm, a very different animal.  Who knows what might one day appear. IMHO, I'd guess any S4 lens range would leverage more off the SL primes than a Q.

[sincurves]

13 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

Are you sure that's the case for all the SL lenses? I've seen examples of where the optical coding was kept and also stripped out when using the SL 35mm APO, and it made basically no difference whatsoever to distortion, with or without the software correction, such was the inbuilt excellence of that lens. The Q, including the 43mm, a very different animal.  Who knows what might one day appear. IMHO, I'd guess any S4 lens range would leverage more off the SL primes than a Q.

Most SL lenses are great afaik. My 28mm had noticeable correction, stellar results anyway. Q’s are at another level as you point out. 

[albireo_double]

The tradeoff seems to be the size and weight of the lenses. If you look at the existing S lenses, these are uniformly excellent even with no software correction. But they are very large and heavy, impractical for travel or any other use that is not a "production-style" photo shoot. Contrast that with the Hasselblad XCD lenses that rely heavily on software correction and vignette quite a bit without it. But they are compact and lightweight, and a joy to travel with. When I sit at the computer and start processing my images, I know that I prefer the S images. When I am hiking up the hill, I know which camera and lenses I prefer to carry. Take your choice (I have sold the Hasselblad but I am keeping the S3...but I hike with my M). 

[frame-it]

1 hour ago, albireo_double said:

even with no software correction

have you checked in rawdigger?

[albireo_double]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I don't use rawdigger. I use Capture One. Perhaps there is some inherent correction even if the distortion and vignetting sliders are left off. I don't care, to be honest. 

[davidmknoble]

Regardless, the SL Primes are not light.  As soon as you take one of the SL primes and convert it to a larger format, it will be heavy.  Medium format lenses were never meant to be light (and weatherproof, and durable).

Because the lenses are mirrorless, I am guessing (just a guess) that Leica will make them with similar formulas as the SL lenses of the same focal length.  They did this with the M and R series.

[BernardC]

2 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

Because the lenses are mirrorless, I am guessing (just a guess) that Leica will make them with similar formulas as the SL lenses of the same focal length.  They did this with the M and R series.

The M and R series used different formulas, except for the 50, 75, 90mm Summicrons. Did you mean they they will use a similar design philosophy? That's surely the case, and it's no bad thing, given the outstanding performance of the APO-SL primes. I think we'll be able to mix between the two sets freely without changing the look of the images.

[John McMaster]

Was there an R 75mm Summicron??  Maybe the M 75mm Summilux and the R 80mm Summilux?

john

[BernardC]

20 hours ago, John McMaster said:

Was there an R 75mm Summicron??  Maybe the M 75mm Summilux and the R 80mm Summilux?

My mistake. I imagined that the 75mm Apo Summicron had an R equivalent, just like the 90mm Apo Summicron. So the crossover between M and R is essentially the Summicron 50 and some versions of the 90mm. Perhaps some 135mm lenses were also the same.

[helged]

On 10/5/2024 at 3:01 PM, frame-it said:

have you checked in rawdigger?

Actually, the S-lenses are - by design & construction - made as optically good as possible (at the time of production, putting cost and weight and size as constraints into the mix) in order for the optical viewfinder to be as accurate as possible. So the S-lenses belong to another time, another philosophy, compared to most of what is made today.

Edited October 7, 2024 by helged

[davidmknoble]

@BernardC, I knew what you meant!  I have the German M Summilux 75 and the ROM R 80 Summilux, and except for the focal length they are incredibly similar.  So, yes, I was referring to basic design philosophy.  Different from the M to R series, where Leica went from a rangefinder to an SLR and back, this would be two mirrorless systems, one with a larger diameter, but otherwise very close to the same.

I would expect some smaller lenses to focus with (like the SL lenses), the similar color transmissions among the lenses (APO Summicron SL) and the point depth of field (like the APO SL).  If Leica really wants to innovate again, they might even make f/2.0 standard lenses and try a 100mm at f/1.8 or f/1.5 or something crazy.  In any event, the lenses will be heavy, maybe just not as heavy as the current lenses!

What would be fantastic, would be if the color renditions of the mirrorless S lenses were the same as the current S lenses so they were truly interchangeable, but that is clearly not necessary.

[John McMaster]

15 hours ago, davidmknoble said:

I have the German M Summilux 75 and the ROM R 80 Summilux, and except for the focal length they are incredibly similar. 

I always preferred the 80mm, now sold my 75 Summilux as it did not suit my current uses.

john

[Stuart Richardson]

I am sure they will take the SL APO primes as a stepping stone, and those lenses are incredible, so I wouldn't lose any sleep over it.

[davidmknoble]

Agreed, @Stuart Richardson, that was my point as well.  In reality, it doesn’t matter if they are perfect when looking through them optically if no system looks through them optically anymore. (Meaning distortion or other things the SL lenses correct internally).

Edited October 12, 2024 by davidmknoble
Clarify