Hybrid Shutter lockup - FW:2.1.2

[Skymark]

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I have an M11-P running 2.1.2 firmware with a 50mm Summilux F1.4 (11728) set to F1.4.  The camera setup is hybrid shutter mode, auto ISO, auto shutter speed, center weighted metering, EV -0.7.

I have encountered a situation where periodically the camera locks itself into electronic shutter ony but with the metering also malfunctioning to guarantee blown out photos.  Once it enters this state, the shutter button operates but there is not way to make menu changes and the overexposed pictures are unusable.  Turning off the camera and removing the battery takes a few tries to restore normal function.

Is this an error condition others have experienced?

[hjddd]

so we have new weird problem now ， sigh……

[Derbyshire Man]

5 hours ago, Skymark said:

I have an M11-P running 2.1.2 firmware with a 50mm Summilux F1.4 (11728) set to F1.4.  The camera setup is hybrid shutter mode, auto ISO, auto shutter speed, center weighted metering, EV -0.7.

I have encountered a situation where periodically the camera locks itself into electronic shutter ony but with the metering also malfunctioning to guarantee blown out photos.  Once it enters this state, the shutter button operates but there is not way to make menu changes and the overexposed pictures are unusable.  Turning off the camera and removing the battery takes a few tries to restore normal function.

Is this an error condition others have experienced?

I suspect that may be your camera! I’d contact Leica. 

[pedaes]

1 hour ago, Derbyshire Man said:

I’d contact Leica. 

Just be prepared to 'send it in'.

[hdmesa]

Do a factory reset. Do not save and reuse existing user profiles during the process. You can leave image numbering to continue.

[Skymark]

I'll give factory reset a try and report back.  It is not a problem I can reproduce on demand so it might take a bit of time for further feedback.

[Skymark]

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A full reset including user profiles (but not image count) did not fix this problem as it happened again immediately after the reset.  The camera was stuck in electronic shutter mode, despite being set to hybrid, and every picture was overexposed.  Turning off the camera and removing the battery restored proper function. By proper function, I mean re-taking the same picture in the same lighting resulted in mechanical shutter with proper exposure as expected.  Sounds like I have a one-off problem not experienced by others.

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, Skymark said:

A full reset including user profiles (but not image count) did not fix this problem as it happened again immediately after the reset.  The camera was stuck in electronic shutter mode, despite being set to hybrid, and every picture was overexposed.  Turning off the camera and removing the battery restored proper function. By proper function, I mean re-taking the same picture in the same lighting resulted in mechanical shutter with proper exposure as expected.  Sounds like I have a one-off problem not experienced by others.

So either you have a hardware issue, or your combinations of settings and lens has a bug under the latest firmware.

Here were your reported settings:

• 50mm Summilux F1.4 (11728) set to F1.4
• hybrid shutter mode
• auto ISO
• auto shutter speed
• center weighted metering
• EV -0.7

Of the above, the aperture has zero effect except to force the hybrid shutter setting to use the electronic shutter.

Can you try a few things to see if the cause can be isolated?

Keep all the settings the same but only change these variables one at a time:

• Set the EV to 0.0 – result?
• Switch to an uncoded lens and turn off Lens Detection (don't use a manual M lens profile) – result?
• Change the Auto ISO maximum exposure time from Auto to a fixed shutter speed such as 1/60 sec. – result?
• Change metering mode to Multifield or Highlight Weighted – result?

If one of those things fixes the issue, then you can report to Leica the problem. If not, try things in reverse. Shoot at default settings after a factory reset. If you get no freezes with factory default settings, then add your settings above one by one until it happens again.

[hdmesa]

^ For context, on my M11-D, I use your same settings including sometimes the -0.7 EV, but I set Auto ISO to a fixed maximum shutter time of 1/125 sec., and I'm only using uncoded lenses and I have Lens Detection set to Off. I don't have any freezes.

If you switch between coded and uncoded M lenses, the auto shutter speed setting under Auto ISO is a poor choice unless you're committed to selecting an M lens profile manually every time you attach a different uncoded lens. Without the camera knowing the focal length with either the 6-bit code or a manual lens profile, it can't do the calculations for the auto shutter speed. The only real setup that is "easy" for the auto shutter speed setting is a scenario where all your lenses are coded except for one. Why? Because when you switch from a coded lens to your uncoded lens, the camera remembers the last manual M lens profile you used and will apply that. So in effect, it's treating the uncoded lens like it knows what it will be. The problem comes when you have two different uncoded lenses of different focal lengths. That means you have to always go into the menu and manually change the M lens profile when you change from one uncoded lens to the next.

[lct]

Suffice it to set lens detection to off. This way, when changing an uncoded lens for another uncoded one, the camera will keep that same lens detection off setting in memory.

[hdmesa]

3 hours ago, lct said:

Suffice it to set lens detection to off. This way, when changing an uncoded lens for another uncoded one, the camera will keep that same lens detection off setting in memory.

But the second they swap in a coded lens, it goes back to Auto, then the next uncoded lens gets the last used M lens profile. There is no Off that stays off if a 6-bit coded lens is involved.

[lct]

4 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

But the second they swap in a coded lens, it goes back to Auto, then the next uncoded lens gets the last used M lens profile. There is no Off that stays off if a 6-bit coded lens is involved.

Indeed and it is IMHO an excellent feature of this camera. If one wants to stay off, it is perfectly possible with uncoded lenses which lens detection off is aimed at.

[hdmesa]

41 minutes ago, lct said:

Indeed and it is IMHO an excellent feature of this camera. If one wants to stay off, it is perfectly possible with uncoded lenses which lens detection off is aimed at.

Right, but a truly logical way for Lens Detection to work would be to show "Uncoded" if no 6-bit coded lens was attached. Reverting to the last used M lens profile should be an option but not the default.

Edited October 4, 2024 by hdmesa

[lct]

2 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Right, but a truly logical way for Lens Detection to work would be to show "Uncoded" if no 6-bit coded lens was attached by default. Reverting to the last used M lens profile should be an option but not the default.

A new option could only add complexity IMHO. I see no practical reason why the last used M lens profile should not remain the default. My good old M240 worked like that 10 years ago with nobody to complain about it. If it ain't broke don't fix it 😉

[hdmesa]

17 minutes ago, lct said:

A new option could only add complexity IMHO. I see no practical reason why the last used M lens profile should not remain the default. My good old M240 worked like that 10 years ago with nobody to complain about it. If it ain't broke don't fix it 😉

Because some have more than one lens without a 6-bit code, and defaulting to Uncoded is better than defaulting to the wrong profile.

[lct]

13 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

Because some have more than one lens without a 6-bit code, and defaulting to Uncoded is better than defaulting to the wrong profile.

Worse than defaulting to the right profile anyway. I used to use several uncoded lenses 10 years ago on the M240 and i did like that feature yet. Now most of my uncoded lenses are pen coded TBH but i was reluctant to butcher a couple of them so i'm glad Leica did not change anything personally but YMMV😎

[Skymark]

I'll keep experimenting with reset & settings as hdmesa suggested to see if I can uncover a firmware bug (preferable) vs a hardware issue with my specific camera.  I can experiment with coded/uncoded lens settings but as a new Leica shooter, I only have current generation coded lenses and rarely change lenses during a shoot. I am mostly using my 50mm Summilux 1.4 CF when I run into the problem. 

[lct]

Just in case, did you try to change or remove your SD card? Not that i got the same problem as yours but i got some minor freezes at startup and a change of card seems to have fixed the issue.

[hdmesa]

6 hours ago, Skymark said:

I'll keep experimenting with reset & settings as hdmesa suggested to see if I can uncover a firmware bug (preferable) vs a hardware issue with my specific camera.  I can experiment with coded/uncoded lens settings but as a new Leica shooter, I only have current generation coded lenses and rarely change lenses during a shoot. I am mostly using my 50mm Summilux 1.4 CF when I run into the problem. 

I have a suspicion that it's all related – the coded lens that allows the Auto ISO to calculate your maximum exposure time based on the focal length. Sometimes it's that one extra layer of complexity in the firmware where the code bugs out.

But do try a different SD card if you can as @lct suggested. And remember that Leica says not to use UHS-I cards in the M11, only UHS-II.

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[Skymark]

Currently using a ProGrade Digital SDXC UHS-II V60 250R Memory Card