Steel Rim Reissue vs Summicron V4

[Mahesh]

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Hi, this question is for those who have used both these lenses and have some views as a result. I would welcome if anyone puts pictures that support their view.

I am thinking of getting one of these 35mm lenses for 1) classic look (glow, character bokeh, separation) , 2) Light weight set-up and 3) producing 3d pop

For me, the re-issue has

1) f1.4 for low light, though modern cameras have good high ISO capabilities.

2) Nice glow between 1.4 and 2, I believe

3) There is good separation / pop from the limited pictures I have taken at a local Leica shop

Unfortunately, it also is in silver colour which won't gel very well with a black camera. Unfortunately, Leica did not invite me to buy the "special" black version. 

Whereas the V4 has

1) Even lighter weight and good working hood (As opposed to the issues new steel rim might have)

2) Lovely rendition for portraits, there is some glow I suppose at f2 ? I have tried this only briefly myself.

3) I have heard that this shines from F4 at mid-distances, though not seen specific pictures.

PS - I am planning to get an M11-D, hopefully soon. Keep getting distracted by Q3 43 but that lens is something completely different (great as it is) and attached to the camera.

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[egrossman]

I own the 35mm Summilux v2 (pre-ASPH) aka the glow-lens. I also used to own the 35mm Summicron v4 (aka the King of Bokeh - an undeserved name). I much prefer the rendering of the Summilux which is soft and glowy at 1.4 but gets rather sharp when stopped down. There is a little bit of glow at F2 but the lens is much more controlled. I would get this in favor of the reissue. The v4 has become pretty expensive and I find the bokeh rather busy; nothing particularly wrong with the lens but I ended up selling mine because it sat mostly unused in favor the the Summilux. If you want a really special lens, you might want to consider a 35mm Summicron 8 element which has seen prices drop by about a third over the past year or so. A lot has been written about it in these forums so feel free to search.

Since you mentioned it, I own the M11-D, having upgraded from the M10-D and I like it a lot from my initial impressions. I'm still getting familiar with the camera so I don't have much to say yet.

The Q3 43 just arrived today. The rendering is lovely for portraits. I got rid of my Q3 in favor of this camera as 28mm was always too wide for me. First few portraits out of the camera are stunning.

Anyways, food for thought.

Erik

[lexffm]

There should be enough images of both lenses in the forum. Sometimes it's not easy to find, but usually it works out quite well with enough time and detective work. In my opinion, the best thing is to go to a dealer you trust (of course only if they have it pre-owned) and test it yourself.

I think the images in the forum can only be an appetizer; ultimately, the only thing that helps is what you do yourself.

[otto.f]

Here’s a nice thread about the Summicron 35 iv, compared to the APO where the bokeh of both lenses is shown very clearly. If this bokeh is already seen as too busy I don’t know what you call bokeh or want from a lens. Bokeh is of course a subjective and personal concept and if the OOF areas are too smooth I rather loose interest in an image.
 

 

[otto.f]

9 hours ago, Mahesh said:

Even lighter weight and good working hood

This is for me THE reason for having this lens beside the APO. For street photography it is unbeatable qua size, weight and thus inconspicuousness. Nothing against the Steel Rim but I find it a lot of money and still not as compact as the KOB. And I’m not a ‘glow’ hunter either.

[Crem]

I don’t own the cron v4, but I do own the lux v2 and the steel rim reissue. I second what @egrossman said above. Definitely consider a good condition v2 if you are looking at the reissue. Personally I prefer my v2 over the reissue. Happy to share more details if you want.

[didier]

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I can’t compare both lenses as I don’t own the ‘cron v4, but I a am pretty happy with the SR reedition and wanted to react to 2 of your comments.

11 hours ago, Mahesh said:

it also is in silver colour which won't gel very well with a black camera

This is a personal question  but have you tried the combo with one of the supplied black hoods ? not as ‘stealthy’ as a full black combo for sure, but…

 

11 hours ago, Mahesh said:

good working hood (As opposed to the issues new steel rim might have)

I am pretty happy with the second hood (the vented one) Leica has made for the SR reedition. Works perfectly with a filter

 

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[hansvons]

Most available KOBs were made in Leica’s Canadian shop. Back then, Leitz Canada was highly important to Leica’s lens development and manufacturing. However, in the KOB’s case, they used in this lens plastic components, which were innovative then and not so much today, as they can become brittle. As in Wetzlar they used metal parts instead, it’s advisable to buy a German-made copy, which comes with a solid premium.

The KOB’s successor, the 35mm Summicron ASPH, renders not very much different, retaining much of the personality, even shows an (ever so) slight glow at full aperture, has a similar bent focal plane that gradually straightens up from f/2 to f/4, but is sharper in the corners, especially at full aperture. It also flares similarly. However, the build quality and pricetag ratio is more convenient. Leica sells this lens today in its second version. Both versions share the same optics, but the v1 has a more vintage-looking bokeh due to an old school aperture. It’s my Desert Island lens.
 

The Steel Rim faces stiff competition from Voightlander’s 35mm Nokton f/1.4 SC v2, which is an even better-made copy. It’s astonishing similar (there’s a thread on Fred Miranda) at a 7th of the price. I own it (no brainer) and love shooting with it when moody images with tons of glow and flares are desired. Its main difference is its cooler rendering (easi fix in post) and more barrel distortion (again, easy fix). 

With the heavy glow, the SR is a speciality lens from today's point of view. However, when stopped down to f/4, it turns into a regular 35mm lens (same with the Nokton) but loses most of its character. The Summicron ASPH, however, shows a distinct character at full aperture that is subtle enough not to distract the content but is already at f/2.8 great for landscapes at infinity. In terms of character, the KOB is closer to the ASPH than the SR. As always, do your own testing.

Edited September 28, 2024 by hansvons

[Mahesh]

11 hours ago, egrossman said:

I own the 35mm Summilux v2 (pre-ASPH) aka the glow-lens. I also used to own the 35mm Summicron v4 (aka the King of Bokeh - an undeserved name). I much prefer the rendering of the Summilux which is soft and glowy at 1.4 but gets rather sharp when stopped down. There is a little bit of glow at F2 but the lens is much more controlled. I would get this in favor of the reissue. The v4 has become pretty expensive and I find the bokeh rather busy; nothing particularly wrong with the lens but I ended up selling mine because it sat mostly unused in favor the the Summilux. If you want a really special lens, you might want to consider a 35mm Summicron 8 element which has seen prices drop by about a third over the past year or so. A lot has been written about it in these forums so feel free to search.

Thank you. Funny enough, I was watching this video by Jimmy just after put this post up and I like what I see...

 

 

[grahamc]

15 hours ago, Mahesh said:

 

 for 1) classic look (glow, character bokeh, separation) , 2) Light weight set-up and 3) producing 3d pop

 

Hi Mahesh 

I've owned both the SR Reissue, Summilux v2 & KOB at the same time, and still own the v2 Summilux and KOB.   Like others here I preferred the v2 but am sure I would've been happy with reissue otherwise.   If it's OK I'll share info on v2 as I've had a few copies..... 

About the v2 versus KOB in your Wishlist points above....  both lenses satisfy all of these 3.   Although where it matters (#1 and #3) KOB does quite well but Summilux v2 excels.  

KOB beats lux for #2 but they are both light enough for this not to matter.

They are both sharp enough lenses but "if" comparative sharpness matters, from F2.8 and up both my v2 copies are sharper than both my KOB copies (in controlled tests).   KOB only beats the lux at F2. 

In saying all of this, where KOB shines is its beautiful colours and very consistent/controlled images F5.6 - F8.  But again here they are so close (and less 3D pop from the KOB) that I'd still choose the lux (v2) overall for sure.    

Cheers

G 

Edited September 28, 2024 by grahamc

[hdmesa]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:54 PM, Mahesh said:

Hi, this question is for those who have used both these lenses and have some views as a result. I would welcome if anyone puts pictures that support their view.

I am thinking of getting one of these 35mm lenses for 1) classic look (glow, character bokeh, separation) , 2) Light weight set-up and 3) producing 3d pop

For me, the re-issue has

1) f1.4 for low light, though modern cameras have good high ISO capabilities.

2) Nice glow between 1.4 and 2, I believe

3) There is good separation / pop from the limited pictures I have taken at a local Leica shop

Unfortunately, it also is in silver colour which won't gel very well with a black camera. Unfortunately, Leica did not invite me to buy the "special" black version. 

Whereas the V4 has

1) Even lighter weight and good working hood (As opposed to the issues new steel rim might have)

2) Lovely rendition for portraits, there is some glow I suppose at f2 ? I have tried this only briefly myself.

3) I have heard that this shines from F4 at mid-distances, though not seen specific pictures.

PS - I am planning to get an M11-D, hopefully soon. Keep getting distracted by Q3 43 but that lens is something completely different (great as it is) and attached to the camera.

I’ve had:

Cron v4 Germany with a Leica CLA: quite a normal lens, and I would not buy it for character. Sold it.

Steel Rim Reissue: too much glow wide open, and the effect becomes completely nauseous (to me) at long distances; this lens has zero “grit” of an original steel rim copy (judging by the photos I’ve seen posted here from original copies). Returned it for being decentered.

Lux Pre-ASPH v2 (CLA from DAG): the crown jewel of glow (to me); just enough glow wide open, which even looks nice at infinity. A never sell lens that I should have never sold.

Nokton II: I have to strain to see the glow; not my preference; my copy arrived out of alignment with the rangefinder wide open. Returned it.

Cron 8-element (LLL version): like a reissue but without the risk of lingering internal haze; a real gem; glow is subtle compared to the Pre-ASPH; best subject separation of all of these in my opinion; superb optics. Never sell lens.

All of the above are great stopped down provided you get a good copy.

[Mahesh]

54 minutes ago, hdmesa said:

I’ve had:

Cron v4 Germany with a Leica CLA: quite a normal lens, and I would not buy it for character. Sold it.

Steel Rim Reissue: too much glow wide open, and the effect becomes completely nauseous (to me) at long distances; this lens has zero “grit” of an original steel rim copy (judging by the photos I’ve seen posted here from original copies). Returned it for being decentered.

Lux Pre-ASPH v2 (CLA from DAG): the crown jewel of glow (to me); just enough glow wide open, which even looks nice at infinity. A never sell lens that I should have never sold.

Nokton II: I have to strain to see the glow; not my preference; my copy arrived out of alignment with the rangefinder wide open. Returned it.

Cron 8-element (LLL version): like a reissue but without the risk of lingering internal haze; a real gem; glow is subtle compared to the Pre-ASPH; best subject separation of all of these in my opinion; superb optics. Never sell lens.

All of the above are great stopped down provided you get a good copy.

Thank you, this is very helpful comparison. Short but to the point.

[Almizilero]

I did a couple of (non-scientific) test shots with the Summicron V4, Summilux V2 and the Re-Issue. My two cents and a download link to my test pictures can be found here:

 

While that thread ends with me keeping the V2, in the end, I sold it again and kept the Summicron V2. Amazing little lens!

[Mahesh]

On 9/28/2024 at 9:16 AM, didier said:

 

 

Edited September 30, 2024 by Mahesh
Incorrect comment from me

[costa43]

If you go down the route of the Summilux then my vote is for the v2 Summilux over the reissue. I’ve tried the reissue but prefer the v2 both wide open and stopped down. I actually found my copy of the v2 to be sharper than the reissue wide open but with more ‘glow’. Stopped down the reissue was extremely sharp, whereas the v2 is sharp enough without being clinical to my eye. 

[JoshuaR]

A lot of great perspectives in this thread. Personally, after having tried FLE, Cron v3, Lux Pre-ASPH, and Cron ASPH, along with the Voigtlander Nokton f/1.4 II in both multi-coated and single-coated, I've settled on the Steel Rim Reissue. I love the way it handles, renders, and even looks on the camera. I only rarely shoot it at f/1.4—I reserve that aperture for certain kinds of special shots—but I use it all the time at f/1.7, f/2, and f/2.8 for various levels of 'glow,' and at narrower apertures for a gentler but still very sharp look. The look combines optical flaws with modern coatings in a way that really works for me. I love everything about it as my everyday 35 and have sold all other 35s. I use it mainly for pictures of my family, and every once in a while, even my wife will say, "That lens is beautiful, whatever it is." It's become my main family photography lens along with the 50 f/1.2 reissue.

All of which is to say—on any subject as nuanced and personal as lens rendering, you simply have to try things for yourself to find out what you want and whether the lens delivers the look you want in the situations you typically encounter. There are no shortcuts, unfortunately.

[Lelmer]

On 9/28/2024 at 10:19 AM, hansvons said:

Most available KOBs were made in Leica’s Canadian shop. Back then, Leitz Canada was highly important to Leica’s lens development and manufacturing. However, in the KOB’s case, they used in this lens plastic components, which were innovative then and not so much today, as they can become brittle. As in Wetzlar they used metal parts instead, it’s advisable to buy a German-made copy, which comes with a solid premium.
....

Late Canadian versions and German ones are identical, without the defective plastic part.

[Mahesh]

On 10/1/2024 at 11:23 AM, JoshuaRothman said:

A lot of great perspectives in this thread. Personally, after having tried FLE, Cron v3, Lux Pre-ASPH, and Cron ASPH, along with the Voigtlander Nokton f/1.4 II in both multi-coated and single-coated, I've settled on the Steel Rim Reissue. I love the way it handles, renders, and even looks on the camera. I only rarely shoot it at f/1.4—I reserve that aperture for certain kinds of special shots—but I use it all the time at f/1.7, f/2, and f/2.8 for various levels of 'glow,' and at narrower apertures for a gentler but still very sharp look. The look combines optical flaws with modern coatings in a way that really works for me. I love everything about it as my everyday 35 and have sold all other 35s. I use it mainly for pictures of my family, and every once in a while, even my wife will say, "That lens is beautiful, whatever it is." It's become my main family photography lens along with the 50 f/1.2 reissue.

All of which is to say—on any subject as nuanced and personal as lens rendering, you simply have to try things for yourself to find out what you want and whether the lens delivers the look you want in the situations you typically encounter. There are no shortcuts, unfortunately.

Thanks that's very helpful to know. I have tried steel rim and liked the pictures I took when testing. I should stop looking for other options and just get what I liked. 🙂

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[ola.fiske]

Photos taken with my leica mp and 35mm summilux 1.4 steel rim reissue with aperture wide open.

Film Kodak tri-x in Hc-110

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[Homo Faber]

Am 27.9.2024 um 22:54 schrieb Mahesh:

Hi, this question is for those who have used both these lenses and have some views as a result. I would welcome if anyone puts pictures that support their view.

I am thinking of getting one of these 35mm lenses for 1) classic look (glow, character bokeh, separation) , 2) Light weight set-up and 3) producing 3d pop

For me, the re-issue has

1) f1.4 for low light, though modern cameras have good high ISO capabilities.

2) Nice glow between 1.4 and 2, I believe

3) There is good separation / pop from the limited pictures I have taken at a local Leica shop

Unfortunately, it also is in silver colour which won't gel very well with a black camera. Unfortunately, Leica did not invite me to buy the "special" black version. 

Whereas the V4 has

1) Even lighter weight and good working hood (As opposed to the issues new steel rim might have)

2) Lovely rendition for portraits, there is some glow I suppose at f2 ? I have tried this only briefly myself.

3) I have heard that this shines from F4 at mid-distances, though not seen specific pictures.

PS - I am planning to get an M11-D, hopefully soon. Keep getting distracted by Q3 43 but that lens is something completely different (great as it is) and attached to the camera.

Two month later: Which lens did you get?