Leaving the L Mount…A hiatus

[o2mpx]

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Perhaps watching the RedDotForum video on the new 70-200 was the last straw. Can’t imagine carrying the 16-35/24-90 plus the 70-200 with the SL2. 

Since acquiring the original SL601, then SL2 black and now SL2 silver, plus the 2 Leica zooms and several Sigmas and Panasonics, the consistent thread had been how to best reduce carrying weight for travel landscapes. Typically taking landscapes while traveling, and not traveling to a destination, setup, and spend as long as it takes for the best light; so portability matters. 

In between the black and silver SL2’s, tried the S1r/S5II as well. But probably more material was acquiring the X1DM2 and then upgraded to X2D with HB lenses, which arguably was equivalent in weight, but offered 100mp and ability to crop, plus the great HB colors, dampened the upgrade to SL3; and the HB set is a keeper  

Read about the Sony A7CR, along with the 20-70/70-200 F4 zooms. Not withstanding the talk about Sony colors, B&H happened to have a couple of these in used but like new condition, so this new kit will be the gear for the next trip; will see how the files turn out. 

Plan to retain the SL2 body for the M lenses, plus the silver finish is a bit different, but all the L mount lenses will be off to new homes as the chapter on L mount comes to a close (well, still have the CL in silver plus zooms).
 

 

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by o2mpx

[darylgo]

Sony is making a concerted effort to reduce the lens size, secondarily weight while providing optical quality that is pro level.  The 70-200/4 is a great example and should be Leica's goal with the SL system IMHO.  Panasonic has provided many lenses that are small/light but Leica will not introduce a body to match.  A Leica A7c size body with the Panasonic 20-60 would be a Q on steroids, again IMOpinioatedHumbleness.  

I keep my SL2 for it's outstanding ibis with some spectacular R lenses, 100 macro, 70-180 zoom, 280 F4 and the 50 Summilux.

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by darylgo

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, o2mpx said:

the consistent thread had been how to best reduce carrying weight for travel landscapes. Typically taking landscapes while traveling, and not traveling to a destination, setup, and spend as long as it takes for the best light; so portability matters. 

In between the black and silver SL2’s, tried the S1r/S5II as well. But probably more material was acquiring the X1DM2 and then upgraded to X2D with HB lenses, which arguably was equivalent in weight, but offered 100mp and ability to crop, plus the great HB colors, dampened the upgrade to SL3; and the HB set is a keeper  

Read about the Sony A7CR, along with the 20-70/70-200 F4 zooms.

Since you posted your thoughts, I assume you expect feedback from fellow landscape photographers. So, here it goes:

Why buy another FF system for landscape photography when you already own the arguably best digital camera system for landscape photography, the X2D? Why not use it for travel? Isn't landscape photography always about travelling in one way or another?

I totally get the idea of cleaning the shelf (I could have been the inventor of shelf cleaning). However, substituting one FF mirrorless system with another only incrementally changes the approach to one's photography. Regardless of the manufacturer, you'll be getting a relatively bulky setup. The only thing that will substantially change is your muscle and brain memory, as both must be adjusted to the new tools.

I'm confident your results won't be better than before for knowledgeable outsiders because it's still you who's pressing the shutter. In my experience, gear isn't the deciding factor. On the contrary, I'll start one step lower every time I invest in technical advancements by swapping an old camera for a new camera (it happens roughly every five years or longer). This is particularly true if I only changed the camera and lenses without gaining anything visible because both play in the same league (never done that).

In my book, photography starts with the lenses. The 24-90 is arguably challenging to beat in IQ. However, I always wondered why many landscape photographers use zooms. They are convenient and fast but visibly worse in everything else. Speed and convenience are big arguments in journalism; in landscape photography, I'd see IQ as the leading factor.

If I were to set up a lightweight but high-performing system for digital landscape photography, I'd invest in an M11 and three lenses. If I feared camera shake and didn't want to carry a tripod (that would be me), I'd get an X2D. 

[Stuart Richardson]

In your fairly short post you mention or allude to 11 different cameras or camera systems. It seems to me it is not the L mount that is the problem, it is that you have not figured out what your needs are.

[FlashGordonPhotography]

I have the A7CR and both lenses that you mention. And they're great. Really really good. Only Olympus makes anything close to the 20-70 I like. Certainly not the Panasonic 20-60. Like the Canon the 70-200 f4 is a marvel.

However on my last 4 trips I've left the Sony's at home and taken the SL3. Often with the Panasonioc 24-105 which is great and a 17 or 20mm Sigma for the wide end. Sure the A7CR is the smallest and lightest but I just can't choose it over the SL3 for travel. Build quality, weather sealing, Ui and handling all favour the Leica and I just value those too much to save a few grams.

I took basically the kit you've bought to Iceland in winter. And honestly the images were *uninspired*??? And I missed (really missed) something longer than 200mm. For Summer I took a 16-35 SL 24-105 Panny and 100-400 Leica. Much happier. I did a lot of hikes with the 24-105 and a 17mm prime.

All I'm saying is don't drop the Leica kit until you've had some time with the Sony.

Gordon

[Jon Warwick]

5 hours ago, hansvons said:

If I were to set up a lightweight but high-performing system for digital landscape photography, I'd invest in an M11 and three lenses. If I feared camera shake and didn't want to carry a tripod (that would be me), I'd get an X2D. 

That's broadly where I ended up (M11, and in my case, GFX100S). Used them directly against one another a lot this summer for identical landscape scenes, and on a tripod to maximise both to their best performance. 

40x30" print quality (in the case of the M11, I cropped its file down from 45" wide to fit) that I got done on Hahnemuhle Fine Art Baryta from both cameras at my local lab, which uses an Epson 11880, looked ridiculously similar to one another. I mean, I could barely see any difference whatsoever. Prints bigger than that, and I'd increasingly pick the 100mp camera.

Thanks to Stuart's excellent recommendation last year, I use the "Enhance" function in ACR for processing DNGs, specifically when I need to mitigate false colors & other "problems" from the color filter array that sometimes occur with the lower resolution (60mp) camera when shooting landscapes that contain very fine detail ..... in my case that's often glacier moraine (ie, small rocks and small rubble at the edge of glaciers). The 100mp doesn't face that issue as much.

So - up to 40x30" - I'm agnostic between the systems in terms of end print quality. If i wanted the lightest and high-performing system, I agree with you - Leica M11 (*). In my case, the main lens that I use for landscapes = 50mm APO Lanthar.  Also agree with you on the tripod / IBIS re X2D, but I tend to happily carry that around anyhow. Both systems far lighter than my former 5x4 in any case 😀

(*) or Q3 43mm!

 

Edited September 26, 2024 by Jon Warwick

[BernardC]

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I never bought-in to the idea of covering every focal length in my kit, at least with still photography. Even in my wedding days I only used two or three fixed focal lengths.

In your situation I would have picked the Sigma fp-l, it offers the extra resolution that you want, with the advantage of staying in the L-mount universe.

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, Jon Warwick said:

So - up to 40x30" - I'm agnostic between the systems in terms of end print quality. If i wanted the lightest and high-performing system, I agree with you - Leica M11 (*). In my case, the main lens that I use for landscapes = 50mm APO Lanthar.  Also agree with you on the tripod / IBIS re X2D, but I tend to happily carry that around anyhow. Both systems far lighter than my former 5x4 in any case 😀

I typically print my pictures vertically at 30x22.5 (80x60cm) on Hahnemule's classic Photo Rag, based on old-school 35mm film in 98% of cases. And it's not only good enough but leaves nothing to be desired. I believe resolution is only the name of the game if "dot peeping" is part of the artist's intent. But I agree that critical focus, sharpness right to the corners, and the absence of camera shake can be vital, especially for landscape photography.

Regarding tripods, I spent most of my career schlepping and adjusting heavy tripods. I'm done with that. I love light cameras because I snap landscapes like shooting in the streets. If I were to invest in a brand new camera for landscape shots, I'd take a closer look at the new Q3 43. The focal length is versatile, the resolution is plenty, the footprint is small, the IQ is outstanding, and the price for what you get is absolutely acceptable.

Edited September 26, 2024 by hansvons

[52K]

You won't be the first SL user migrating to the Sony system and I think you summed it up nicely regarding the trilogy of lenses in your opening statement. 

Sony's GMII lenses (16-35 & 24-70) are a delight to use and add the 70-200f4 G II as well you've got a super-compact professional grade package weighing in at a fraction of the SL equivalent lenses. 

Add to the story, the A7RV and the A7CR, both with 61MP variable resolution sensor, and multi-articulating screens and you've now got a choice of light, or lighter cameras too. Happy days. 

I shoot M cameras for my personal projects, and I used the SL system for all paid work. I was so disappointed with the SL3 and the prospect of spending yet a load more cash for the extra megapixels I actually needed for product work. Ended up selling the entire SL system for Sony and have no regrets. Depending on the lenses you have, you'll probably find you can add a decent GM prime or two as well which IMO are as good as the SL APO lenses which are outstanding.

The user interface on the Sony cameras is where it gets a little difficult. Making the switch means you have to learn the new system software which is much harder and almost unnecessarily complex compared to Leica's GUI which is the best in the business. To be fair, it didn't take too long and YouTube is your friend here. Loads of people giving great tuition on the Sony menus and camera set up. 

Love the Leica SL system IQ, but the Sony kit can do a great job too. Hey, you have the X2D as well right? That's probably the landscape photographer's ultimate camera. Not so many lenses available for it, but spectacular IQ and colours.

Enjoy whatever path you take. 

 

Edited October 2, 2024 by 52K
typo

[geronimosan]

I too once was all over the place with different systems, zooms, primes, etc.  Wanted to consolidate into a single system I could grow into. Looked at HB but it wasn't versatile enough for my needs. After a lot of experimentation and consolidation, my landscape+ kit is now:

- SL3
- 21/35/75 f/2 APO-Summicron SL
- 90-280 APO-Summicron SL
- 105 f/2.8 Sigma Art Macro
- 35 Leica "Steel Rim" Reissue

This is a great set to pick and choose from depending on my expected location and subject.  35/75 is usually my go-to minimum pairing, and then expand out from there as needed.  The APO-Summicron SL lenses are absolutely remarkable reference level lenses. Sony and Panasonic might make similar "good enough" versions, but I am not a "good enough" kind of guy. The 90-280 is incredible, and that extra 80mm reach over the traditional 70-200 zoom is amazing.  The first SL lens I bought was the 24-90 zoom, but sold it after I rented and compared its results to those of the APO SL primes.

I do like the color science of HB, but the Leica color/contrast science imo is on par with HB, plus very easy to grade in post. On top of that is the fully weather sealed SL system and better autofocus. The Leica SL system covers all my landscape+ bases and then some.

Edited October 31, 2024 by geronimosan