Weird Light "leak" across frames; Leica R5

[mbphotox]

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So, it wasn't Crocodile Dundee with his torch after all..

after scanning more from my roll of Portra 160, I had to realise that these blue blobs are on every single image that had the sun in or slightly outside the frame. In fact, the blobs span across frames and cover the space between frames, too.

Frames weren't cropped to show the unexposed film borders

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and here's the film negative

How can this happen? The blob is, when there is one, always present "between frames", as if the light leak happened while advancing the film?

 

Scanning with the Valoi Easy35 and converting with NLP, but that doesn't appear to be the issue. I can find blue blobs on some older scans (PrimefilmXE with Silverfast software) from that trip.. even with heavily overcast sky, or in the shade..

 

more:

 

there was VERY little light here, and the sun had almost completely set..

 

I had a half a dozen rolls developped in Singapore (shots from Indonesia and Malaysia) and only a few of them showed this behaviour.

The rest of the rolls (shots from new Zealand and Australia), I had developped at home in Switzerland, and this issue plagues a LOT of my frames.

I also notice a LOT of massively underexposed frames. (looks like the meter of the camera was having a hard time.. but I had to swap batteries after every roll, so maybe the batteries were really bad.. they were old, too)

 

Is it possible that there's a light leak when advancing the film?

 

 

Other times, I had no issues at all

 

[mbphotox]

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then, at other times, the blob again

 

it really doesn't care what side of the frame the sun is in..

[250swb]

Are you using a lens hood? A blue cast 'leak' usually means the light is coming from the front of the camera, so not leaking from around the film door or film id window which would give an orange leak on colour negative film. Given the R5 has a metal shutter a leak there is unlikely so my guess is flare. When looking at flare problems remember the image is projected onto the film back to front and upside down and if it's crossing frames it doesn't mean it happened twice on consecutive frames, just once on one frame that's spilled over to the next as yet unexposed frame.

Edited September 15, 2024 by 250swb

[mbphotox]

1 hour ago, 250swb said:

Are you using a lens hood? A blue cast 'leak' usually means the light is coming from the front of the camera, so not leaking from around the film door or film id window which would give an orange leak on colour negative film. Given the R5 has a metal shutter a leak there is unlikely so my guess is flare. When looking at flare problems remember the image is projected onto the film back to front and upside down and if it's crossing frames it doesn't mean it happened twice on consecutive frames, just once on one frame that's spilled over to the next as yet unexposed frame.

Cheers

using the rectangular hood, yeah. At least on the 28/2.8. No hood (other than the built-in one) for the 90/2 and 50/2..

The problem occurred mostly with images from the 28mm, though.

I will experiment with the lens on my Nikon Zf.. if the lens leaks light, the digital camera should reveal that pretty quickly, no?

[250swb]

8 hours ago, mbphotox said:

Cheers

using the rectangular hood, yeah. At least on the 28/2.8. No hood (other than the built-in one) for the 90/2 and 50/2..

The problem occurred mostly with images from the 28mm, though.

I will experiment with the lens on my Nikon Zf.. if the lens leaks light, the digital camera should reveal that pretty quickly, no?

A lens doesn't leak light, but they can flare which is where a bright point light source, often the sun or artificial lights, coming from an acute angle causes bright internal reflections. If it hits the edge of the frame and it's bright enough it can spill over into the next image. By looking at your negatives you should be able to determine if those that have this blue flare also have the sun in the frame or just out of the frame. For example does this problem affect images that don't have bright points of light in them or light at an acute angle? An amateur mistake that can cause an otherwise good lens to show flare is to use a cheap filter or to stack filters on a lens.

Edited September 16, 2024 by 250swb

[Stuart Richardson]

It does not look like lens flare to me, but I can't be sure. The only thing I think is that it need not necessarily occur when you are winding. Rather it might occur after the film has advanced, in the position that the film rests in. It is coming from above, so my guess would be on the right side by the spool or to the right of where the frame gap is. It could be a bad light seal or degraded foam, something like that. It could be sporadic depending on how the sun hits the camera while you are using it. If you carry the camera at your side or in your bag, it might not occur, but if you sit it on a table or pick it up and tilt it at a certain angle, it might occur. In any case, I think the main solution in any case would be to send the camera to a repair person to be checked out. First step would be to renew the seals anyway.

[mbphotox]

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3 hours ago, 250swb said:

A lens doesn't leak light, but they can flare which is where a bright point light source, often the sun or artificial lights, coming from an acute angle causes bright internal reflections. If it hits the edge of the frame and it's bright enough it can spill over into the next image. By looking at your negatives you should be able to determine if those that have this blue flare also have the sun in the frame or just out of the frame. For example does this problem affect images that don't have bright points of light in them or light at an acute angle? An amateur mistake that can cause an otherwise good lens to show flare is to use a cheap filter or to stack filters on a lens.

it's definitely not flaring.

I have examples of flaring from that lens (see the shot with the gorge and the sun in the top right corner) and it's very different.

 

also, the dark ones during sunsets barely had enough light to get a proper exposure, but the "light leak" was most intense in those.

 

I will check the seals first.

[TomB_tx]

Is it consistently at the bottom of the pictures? That is at the top of the frame in the camera. Most SLRs have light seals around the bottom of the focusing screen to seal off viewfinder light when the mirror is up in case there is strong light behind the camera, That's where an eye cup on the VF could help if this is the problem.

Your first couple of pictures look like the light is behind - but not others, so this may not be it.

[250swb]

On 9/16/2024 at 9:21 AM, Stuart Richardson said:

It does not look like lens flare to me, but I can't be sure. The only thing I think is that it need not necessarily occur when you are winding. Rather it might occur after the film has advanced, in the position that the film rests in. It is coming from above, so my guess would be on the right side by the spool or to the right of where the frame gap is. It could be a bad light seal or degraded foam, something like that. It could be sporadic depending on how the sun hits the camera while you are using it. If you carry the camera at your side or in your bag, it might not occur, but if you sit it on a table or pick it up and tilt it at a certain angle, it might occur. In any case, I think the main solution in any case would be to send the camera to a repair person to be checked out. First step would be to renew the seals anyway.

If light is coming from the back, like through the seals, it will be tinted orange by passing through the film base.

Edited September 17, 2024 by 250swb

[Stuart Richardson]

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be tinted blue if it were a negative? It is tinted orange as it passes through the base, because the orange base is orange in normal light, but when it is inverted in the scan it appears at blue. In any case, this is not my expertise, but I have seen a lot of flare and a lot of light leaks in my time, and this looks like a light leak, not flare to me. Exactly where it is coming from, I couldn't say.

[mbphotox]

37 minutes ago, Stuart Richardson said:

Excuse my ignorance, but wouldn't it be tinted blue if it were a negative? It is tinted orange as it passes through the base, because the orange base is orange in normal light, but when it is inverted in the scan it appears at blue. In any case, this is not my expertise, but I have seen a lot of flare and a lot of light leaks in my time, and this looks like a light leak, not flare to me. Exactly where it is coming from, I couldn't say.

orange base appears orange, bc it mainly absorbs blue light.

if light hits the emulsion from behind, the blue portion gets absorbed more than the other colours, thus the emulsion will detect "orange" light.

the light leaks from damaged seals on the camera back usually look warm and orange bc the light passed through the film base and into the emulsion.

 

That's why I suspect the leak to be in the front..

 

I get my RaLeno light this week, then I can lay out the negatives and maybe a pattern emerges.

 

the shot in the gorge, very dark during sunset, was nr 1 on the roll. (-1 is half burnt-off and 0 was also taken inside the car (a photo of the steering wheel, wee!)

it has the strongest blue blob of them all.

will see if the blue blob got weaker across the roll, whatever that might mean.

[Stuart Richardson]

One other thing I have found helpful, though I imagine you might have tried it, is to use an extremely strong flashlight, masked off as well as possible. I have found that by moving it around the inside and outside of the camera in a darkened room, the extreme intensity of the light will make small leaks readily visible. I have a 3200 lumen biking headlamp that I use for this, and it has helped me diagnose light leaks in bellows and film holders, for example. You have to be careful not to shine it in your eyes of course, haha.

[mbphotox]

will give the flashlight a try, thanks

[mbphotox]

Looks like the seals are toast.. I never even noticed.. and looking around my drawers, I could swear there's a pre-cut set for the R5... omfg! I forgot to change those years ago..

I have a Yashica 35GX, the Spotmatic, the Fujica ST901, and the R5 that all need new seals.. might hand them to a camera shop to get it done. (I have the pre-cut seals for the latter 3, actually)