Leica 35mm F2 ASPH M APO - Views and comments please

[Almizilero]

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vor einer Stunde schrieb patrickcolpron:

whereas the APO is too smooth for most people, too clean, almost looking fake to them. 

Thanks for digging these up! I feel they show the differences very well. And the quote finally made me realise something. The background of the APO is very smooth, and by this, it reminds me of the STF lenses I used and loved in my Minolta/Sony days. That's probably why I'm leaning towards the APO. And there are other things. Just like the 90 APO on my SL2s, the 35 brings a special qualities in the little things. Especially the eyes are more captivating with the APO lenses, no need for any photoshop beauty eye highlighting shenanigans.

But the KOB is a solid performer with a beautiful rendering. Also, the colours are a bit more green-ish, which helps counter the magenta-ish output of the M11

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[Almizilero]

vor 15 Minuten schrieb M11 for me:

I wonder what COB might be. This is no Leica term!

Why someone would come into this thread, add nothing to the original question or the ongoing discussion and just feel the need to correct a spelling mistake is beyond me. Everybody understood what was meant. And “King of Bokeh” is not a Leica term either. Should we just use 11310 and 11699 and to avoid confusion? 🙄

[M11 for me]

vor 27 Minuten schrieb Almizilero:

Why someone would come into this thread, add nothing to the original question or the ongoing discussion and just feel the need to correct a spelling mistake is beyond me. Everybody understood what was meant. And “King of Bokeh” is not a Leica term either. Should we just use 11310 and 11699 and to avoid confusion? 🙄

That was certainly not my intention. It was simply unclear. This not about adding anything just to understand. Thank you anyway. Its clear now. 

Edited September 22, 2024 by M11 for me

[Almizilero]

vor 29 Minuten schrieb M11 for me:

That was certainly not my intention. It was simply unclear. This not about adding anything just to understand. Thank you anyway. Its clear now. 

No harm done. Long day at work while everybody else was out in the sun, maybe I overreacted, sorry!

[M8X2]

Patrick, thanks for sharing these photos. It is really interesting ... I prefer the out-of-focus rendering of the APO while overall, the KOB images are on par or ever so slightly more pleasing to me. Maybe it is the slight difference in color, I don't know. My wife prefers the APO images.

[TheEyesHaveIt]

First photo of Ava is special - but I think that has a lot to do with her expression and pose. It is apparent how much more the APO blurs out the background. And while maybe not immediately apparent, the APO does bring that extra level of sharpness and detail. Maybe not as important (or even appropriate) for this subject matter (portraits) - but I could see why it would be desirable elsewhere.

[hansvons]

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14 hours ago, patrickcolpron said:

First the KOB  image for the first of the two different photos I made to compare these lenses for myself, this was not to be shared, ever. Selfishly made just for me. First photo is of Anna. 

Besides many other things, the most obvious difference is the KOB‘s curvature that makes things at edges look less blurry. Being a quirk that goes along with the whole 35mm lineage including the ASPH Summicron that Leica still sells, the APO ended the tradition and became an curvature-deprived option in the Leica catalogue.

As reactions and anecdotes in this thread show, the audience like the KOB better and the APO owners are at least a tie. And that‘s predictable because the APO is a significant investment.

As written elsewhere many times over and again, Leica M owners love vintage lenses not only as a collectible but even more so as a way to de-digitalise their photography and I can’t blame them. With the APO attached, the M11 is a modern beast of perfection inside a vintage body, almost a retro mod.

Leica had to make the 35mm Summicron APO to cement their M-Mount leadership, as Cosima became a serous contender. It‘s certainly a marvel of a lens, a personality in its own right and already a collectible of sorts, but for most Leicaristi it’s of no special value as it‘s not adding to the "Leica look" (at least in an obvious way), which is more often then not related to the film days when photography wasn’t perfect but emotional (isn’t the past always tainted with emotions?). Certainly somewhat debatable, I‘d argue that emotions are more easily evoked with quirks than perfection. 

Great test, BTW, Patrick! Never understood why people would shoot pictures to evaluate a lens‘ personality without people in it. 

Edited September 23, 2024 by hansvons

[otto.f]

10 hours ago, hansvons said:

isn’t the past always tainted with emotions?

Good question! Although… we do not recall the things/events from the past that were emotionless. But would that mean that Karbe’s lenses will fill a future with unemotional images?

Edited September 23, 2024 by otto.f

[JoshuaR]

There's a lucid, transparent, window-onto-reality, more-real-than-real look to the 35mm APO images I've seen online. As if you've got new glasses and just see everything more clearly. Including out of focus elements, which are reduced to their essence, without any swirly, fuzzy, jittery detail.

By comparison, the KOB images look pleasing and "normal" to me, in a good way. And the pictures I get with my New Steel Rim (currently my main lens and only 35) have a light-drenched quality—as though the light has got inside of the lens and bounced around to create glow (which I guess it has).

Before the Steel Rim, my main lens and only 35 was an FLE. It gave me the more-real-than-real look, but there was something about the images that didn't always work for me. I think the sharpness of the in-focus areas and the occasional nervousness of the out of focus areas competed with one another. By comparison, the APO images look more balanced and beautiful; sharpness only happens where it's supposed to happen. There's something smoother and gentler about the pictures. I just went to Jono Slack's site and looked at his FLE and 35 APO M examples and the difference really is visible, I think.

I do sometimes like the realer-than-real look. And I think that, in an ideal world, I'd own both the Steel Rim and the APO. But the cost of the APO puts it beyond me. And my default preference is for a lens more like the Steel Rim. So the APO would be more like an occasional lens. I've thought sometimes about the 35 APO SL, which is a lens I can afford. But I prefer manual lenses wherever possible, and the idea of spending Leica-level money on an autofocus lens stuffed with electronics doesn't appeal to me.

Maybe someday!

Edited September 23, 2024 by JoshuaRothman

[AdamMark]

I would like to thank everybody for taking the trouble to read and answer my query.  This is a wonderful and knowledgable community.  Thank you 🙏

[otto.f]

8 hours ago, AdamMark said:

I would like to thank everybody for taking the trouble to read and answer my query.  This is a wonderful and knowledgable community.  Thank you 🙏

Just one addition. It’s a bit strange that nobody thus far has mentioned the CV Ultron 35/2.0 ii because it has the same classic character as the KOB, but it’s even slightly better qua build, sharpness and bo-keh, only a bit yellower which doesn’t disturb. Pity though that it’s not as small.

Edited September 24, 2024 by otto.f

[hansvons]

2 hours ago, otto.f said:

It’s a bit strange that nobody thus far has mentioned the CV Ultron 35/2.0 ii because it has the same classic character as the KOB,

 It's CV's answer to Leica's 35mm Summicron ASPH. I have the Leica original, my personal Desert Island lens, to paraphrase @patrickcolpron. Besides these two, there are dozens of 35mm lenses that can be seen as alternatives to both the APO and the KOB. However, I agree that both Ultron and ASPH Summicron are valid alternatives. They offer plenty of character and sharpness to the corners at low apertures.

[AdamMark]

Thanks for everybody who took the trouble to read the post - Appreciated.  This is an amazing forum with people who have many interesting views and a wide range of valuable knowledge.

[poli]

On 9/22/2024 at 6:45 PM, patrickcolpron said:

 

They both have pros and cons. Which is best, that is oh, so very personal. Between those two, the APO is my desert Island lens, but I'll have trouble ever parting with the KOB, they complement each other, offering slightly different flavours. 

Just looking at image #2, Ava's photo, I'll say the scale weights in the KOB's favour for that specific image, but again this is all very subjective. 

The KOB seems to have more POP to it, and as @Almizilero mentionned the KOB seems slightly wider than the APO, and tehse were made at about 70cm distance.

The lenses anyone decides to shoot with really depends on what they are after and their own personal preferences. 

After all these posts, photos, comparisons and comments , I have decided I really need the KOB as my final (?) 35…

And to put it to the test I am now on my way to Paris with the 35, an MA and my wife 😉. 

[MAFORLIFE]

On 2/28/2025 at 4:56 PM, poli said:

After all these posts, photos, comparisons and comments , I have decided I really need the KOB as my final (?) 35…

And to put it to the test I am now on my way to Paris with the 35, an MA and my wife 😉. 

I think I remember that you were using a Summilux Pre asph with you MA. Why did you find the need to replace it with a KOB ? 

[poli]

1 hour ago, MAFORLIFE said:

I think I remember that you were using a Summilux Pre asph with you MA. Why did you find the need to replace it with a KOB ? 

That’s correct! Although I liked the results of the pre asph. I kinda disliked the 1 mfd. I decided to sell it (which you should never do haha). Also, I purchased a 35 summilux asph (pre fle). Which renders really nice. So two 35’s should be more than enough for me. 

[wlaidlaw]

I have recently bought a Polar Pro magnetic hinged swing up (or down) for my Q3, which makes orientation of a circular polarising filter infinitely easier and also mounting and unmounting a filter https://www.polarpro.com/products/leica-q3-accessories . I have suggested to Polar Pro that they might also make a similar magnetic hood for the 35 APO Summicron-M as rotating a polarising filter is even more difficult under its smaller hood (takes an e43 filter on the lens front rather than the e49 of the Q3). It would also make mounting/unmounting non-polarising filters on the 35 APO easier. If folks could please PM me if they would be interested and I will pass this on to Oliver at Polar Pro. They are trying to gauge the demand for such a hood. The Q3 hood is beautifully made and fully up to Leica standards. 

Wilson