Leica M11-D Review by Jonathan Slack

[RobW0]

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1 hour ago, Alberti said:

Just By Chance I got an iPhone SE last week (where we were going there was no wifi). But before that I was a happy user of old Nokia and iPhone5. A luddite? Yes. With purpose (though I managed mobile release and data product development . . ).

Interdependencies are very very bad. I really was looking at this camera with some favorite eye. Even if they gave the phone with it, I would be put off. Like said, the time to oblivion of phones is some 5 years. The camera will [must, hopefully] last >15 years. One is not going to keep a phone for the camera; and having two is crazy.

I think your point is valid, however I think it is the app on the phone that is the most important part. As long as there is an app that is compatible with the camera you are fine. So I guess the question is, if phones are gone in 5 years will Leica still have a compatible app on whatever replaces them. 

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[jonoslack]

3 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Ok, I was told yesterday by one of the dealers I work with that there's a M11-D soon available with my name on it if I wish to pull the trigger on it......h'mmm??? The cost of the camera is covered by a credit with the store and the fact that I would let one of my M10's go if I took the plunge so that's not so much of an issue, so what to do? Two days to decide, tick tock tick tock.......

Here are my hesitations:

The M11 series has had a troubled firmware life so far, how much of that could still be lurking within the M11-D?

The "D" series of M's are by far my favourite digital M cameras, I like their simplicity and lack of distraction, however the M11-D is more complicated than the now departed M10-D that I had from new which suffered a long history of electronic glitches and spent almost half it's life back at Wetzlar being sorted in one way or another, ( ie; three main board transplants plus other stuff ), I wouldn't want to repeat that, so yes I would have some nervousness as to the M11-D's reliability in that respect, Leica's firmware / electronics history that is.

I agree with Jono regarding the WB issues, that should be able to be on-camera set, not by using a Foto's setup that would require having an iPhone or iPad to hand which isn't easy for me as it happens. The same applies to changing the sensor resolution which I guess has to be done in  the same manner, through Fotos (?)..........And yes, being able to access the camera's menu via a Visoflex II would be a great really meaningful firmware upgrade, but no matter who or how many ask for that facility I wouldn't hold my breath on that being made a possibility.

So I wonder if the M11-D would suffer from the same developmental abandonment that was the case with the M10-D, in other words, none. Despite that I thought that there were some things that could have been added or functionally improved by firmware development to the M10-D after it's launch Leica did absolutely nothing for it, no firmware or extra abilities added at all.........So yes, I wonder if that would be the case with the M11-D too, launched, functions "ok", then Leica moves on? Other camera manufacturers update their cameras with extra features and abilities quite often, not so much of the same from Wetzlar at least with the M's I am afraid.

All said though I do miss my departed M10-D, so the M11-D does have quite a gravitational pull.......and although I'm yet to see it in hand just the images of it do have great appeal, it's a beautiful beast dammit.....

Hi there

first of all, Leica have taken the firmware glitches with the M11 incredibly seriously, with a special team of developers and a special team of testers too. 
the M11-D was delayed to get this right (and it was included in the testing)  

there is a general concensus amongst the testing team that it is sorted  

of course things can go wrong, but I’ve not seen much evidence of hardware problems either. 
 

So if you fancy one I should go for it!

[student]

4 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Ok, I was told yesterday by one of the dealers I work with that there's a M11-D soon available with my name on it if I wish to pull the trigger on it......h'mmm??? The cost of the camera is covered by a credit with the store and the fact that I would let one of my M10's go if I took the plunge so that's not so much of an issue, so what to do? Two days to decide, tick tock tick tock.......

 

....

 

So I wonder if the M11-D would suffer from the same developmental abandonment that was the case with the M10-D, in other words, none. Despite that I thought that there were some things that could have been added or functionally improved by firmware development to the M10-D after it's launch Leica did absolutely nothing for it, no firmware or extra abilities added at all.........So yes, I wonder if that would be the case with the M11-D too, launched, functions "ok", then Leica moves on? Other camera manufacturers update their cameras with extra features and abilities quite often, not so much of the same from Wetzlar at least with the M's I am afraid.

All said though I do miss my departed M10-D, so the M11-D does have quite a gravitational pull.......and although I'm yet to see it in hand just the images of it do have great appeal, it's a beautiful beast dammit.....

Seems to me that you've already made up your mind, and are looking for a bit of encouragement ...

[elmars]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb jonoslack:

Hi there

first of all, Leica have taken the firmware glitches with the M11 incredibly seriously, with a special team of developers and a special team of testers too. 
the M11-D was delayed to get this right (and it was included in the testing)  

there is a general concensus amongst the testing team that it is sorted  

of course things can go wrong, but I’ve not seen much evidence of hardware problems either. 
 

So if you fancy one I should go for it!

Jono is right, I was one of the testers too.

[Smudgerer]

1 hour ago, jonoslack said:

Hi there

first of all, Leica have taken the firmware glitches with the M11 incredibly seriously, with a special team of developers and a special team of testers too. 
the M11-D was delayed to get this right (and it was included in the testing)  

there is a general concensus amongst the testing team that it is sorted  

of course things can go wrong, but I’ve not seen much evidence of hardware problems either. 
 

So if you fancy one I should go for it!

 

5 minutes ago, elmars said:

Jono is right, I was one of the testers too.

 

21 minutes ago, student said:

Seems to me that you've already made up your mind, and are looking for a bit of encouragement ...

 

Thanks to the three of you, and unfortunately (???) I have a long time relationship with my regular Leica dealer who seemingly knows me better than I will admit to myself...........His message of Saturday was: " I'm sending you the "reserved" M11-D this week. if you don't like it just send it back".

I noted that he said nothing about including a pre-paid return shipping label.

I guess I'm cooked.........We'll see later this week.

[charlesphoto99]

18 hours ago, jonoslack said:

AWB is an aberration from the devil! More seriously I want control of my colour and I don’t want the camera deciding it - no problem with it deciding on the ISO or shutter speed (within reasonable parameters) but I DON’T WANT AUTO WHITE BALANCE! And I wouldn’t touch a camera which forced it - sure if you shoot DNG you can change it afterwards - but if you shoot 500 pictures that’s quite a task!

best

Jono

Yeah, of course. I often revert to a 5600K set standard myself (which in some situations gives me worse than AWB). I was just spitballing ideas. One could have a special function button I suppose for WB. My thing is, the 'D' should be a self contained camera, no phone etc needed. 

Edited September 15, 2024 by charlesphoto99

[elmars]

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vor 2 Stunden schrieb Smudgerer:

 

 

 

Thanks to the three of you, and unfortunately (???) I have a long time relationship with my regular Leica dealer who seemingly knows me better than I will admit to myself...........His message of Saturday was: " I'm sending you the "reserved" M11-D this week. if you don't like it just send it back".

I noted that he said nothing about including a pre-paid return shipping label.

I guess I'm cooked.........We'll see later this week.

Poor man!

[Smudgerer]

20 minutes ago, elmars said:

Poor man!

Ha! Thanks..........I'll post what I think after it rolls up, I'm still very much 50/50 as to whether I want to make this move, as I said, we'll see............

[jonoslack]

3 hours ago, Smudgerer said:

Ha! Thanks..........I'll post what I think after it rolls up, I'm still very much 50/50 as to whether I want to make this move, as I said, we'll see............

You will be very happy together!

 

[scott kirkpatrick]

Still haven't gotten my shiny new M11-D sorted and out in the street earning its living.  Because Apple put me on a 6 day lockout after I tried to uncover a lost password by trying various variations on my most recent one to guess the new one.  And the fact that you can't set up the new camera without access to it through someone else's software strikes me as rather strange.  Grrr.  (But the world has lots of things to shoot right now, and I'll wait a bit.)

[hunterspoint]

Just saw a video on the 11D that there is no way to format the SD card in camera ( as in the M10D via the fotos app), and no way to manage storage options such as how to assign photos to the internal storage vs SD card.  Can you address how you formatted your card during the review period? Thanks

[davidnvh]

3 hours ago, hunterspoint said:

Just saw a video on the 11D that there is no way to format the SD card in camera ( as in the M10D via the fotos app), and no way to manage storage options such as how to assign photos to the internal storage vs SD card.  Can you address how you formatted your card during the review period? Thanks

 

1. True, I hope the future firmware will add that.

2. Storage management exists in Android's Photos app, not on iOS.

3. At the moment, I save images to both SD and internal storage, then just pop out my SD card to import to my PC for editing. The internal memory acts as a backup until it’s full. When it’s full, I connect via the app, select all, and delete.

 

[davidnvh]

I just found another solution for copying and deleting files that also gives me access to both the internal storage and the SD card at once. You need to install an app called MacDroid if you run macOS, and then just connect the M11D to your PC via the USB-C port. The camera will be seen as an MTP device, and you need to open MacDroid to mount it, then you’ll have access to both storages via the normal file manager app. This works very well for me, just panicked a little when I got lazy and deleted the whole folder (don't do that for the internal storage or you'll be in trouble) - needed to restart the camera, otherwise newly taken pictures won’t be saved.

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Edited September 16, 2024 by davidnvh

[jonoslack]

8 hours ago, hunterspoint said:

Just saw a video on the 11D that there is no way to format the SD card in camera ( as in the M10D via the fotos app), and no way to manage storage options such as how to assign photos to the internal storage vs SD card.  Can you address how you formatted your card during the review period? Thanks

Hi There

I deleted images via the Fotos app (both on internal and the SD card) - which worked fine, and of course you can always format the SD card in another camera if you really want to (or in your computer)

best

 

[elmars]

I wrote the following on the subject in my review:

"There is no option to format the internal memory or the SD card. Instead, you have to delete the photos using the app. It may not be technically so easy to implement formatting using the app. I don't miss it myself, but there are probably many users who have made a habit of frequently reformatting the SD card in the camera because deleting it can supposedly disrupt the SD card's file system. But this is a misconception. In the Leica Enthusiast Podcast, an engineer from Western Digital (the manufacturer of the SanDisk cards) explained that deleting files in the camera has no negative effects and does not lead to image loss. So all you have to do with the M11-D is change your routine and delete photos instead of formatting the card."

[LBJ2]

1 hour ago, elmars said:

I wrote the following on the subject in my review:

"There is no option to format the internal memory or the SD card. Instead, you have to delete the photos using the app. It may not be technically so easy to implement formatting using the app. I don't miss it myself, but there are probably many users who have made a habit of frequently reformatting the SD card in the camera because deleting it can supposedly disrupt the SD card's file system. But this is a misconception. In the Leica Enthusiast Podcast, an engineer from Western Digital (the manufacturer of the SanDisk cards) explained that deleting files in the camera has no negative effects and does not lead to image loss. So all you have to do with the M11-D is change your routine and delete photos instead of formatting the card."

You wrote "...an engineer from Western Digital (the manufacturer of the SanDisk cards) explained that deleting files in the camera has no negative effects and does not lead to image loss"

Thank you for posting this. Hopefully this gets passed around on all the photography forums across the internet for years to come as much as the old warning against deleting photos in camera. Too many of us have been deleting photos in digital/mirrorless camera for years without any issues whatsoever across multiple camera brands. IMO deleting photos through the Leica FOTOS App for Leica cameras is my preferred, very handy/efficient particularly when working with a large amount of photos. 

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by LBJ2

[jonoslack]

5 minutes ago, LBJ2 said:

You wrote "...an engineer from Western Digital (the manufacturer of the SanDisk cards) explained that deleting files in the camera has no negative effects and does not lead to image loss"

Thank you for posting this. Hopefully this gets passed around on all the photography forums across the internet for years to come as much as the old warning against deleting photos in camera. Too many of us have been deleting photos in digital/mirrorless camera for years without any issues whatsoever across multiple camera brands. IMO deleting photos through the Leica FOTOS App for Leica cameras is my preferred, very handy/efficient particularly when working with a large amount of photos. 

 

Also it's lovely watching the photos zoom away when you press delete 😂

[elmars]

I try to keep count every time. But I am too slow.

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[LocalHero1953]

1 hour ago, LBJ2 said:

You wrote "...an engineer from Western Digital (the manufacturer of the SanDisk cards) explained that deleting files in the camera has no negative effects and does not lead to image loss"

Thank you for posting this. Hopefully this gets passed around on all the photography forums across the internet for years to come as much as the old warning against deleting photos in camera. Too many of us have been deleting photos in digital/mirrorless camera for years without any issues whatsoever across multiple camera brands. IMO deleting photos through the Leica FOTOS App for Leica cameras is my preferred, very handy/efficient particularly when working with a large amount of photos. 

 

I discovered this the hard way recently. I accidentally reformatted a 2Tb external SSD containing a very large file, and then added a new small file (in my hurry, I mistook one drive for another). I spent a lot of time thereafter trying different recovery tools: none showed any trace of any other file than the one I had added. I discussed this with a couple of recovery professionals who told me that, unlike with a HDD, it had gone for ever. In reading around the subject, it appears that solid state drive controllers actively wipe storage areas over a very short period after deletion or reformatting ('garbage collection'), as long as they remained powered up. Read about the 'TRIM' command and setting to find out more. If my reading of this wikipedia page is correct, something similar happens with SD cards.

I am sure someone with more knowledge of the systems can explain it better.

 

Edited September 16, 2024 by LocalHero1953

[algrove]

Well I can tell you I WILL only format my memory cards in camera. So I guess this means that I use my M11 to format the cards and then put that card into my M11D. How preposterous.

Come on Leica give us the option of formatting cards and internal memory the way all other M11's allow.

Why did you not fight this ridiculous way of formatting cards in the M11D? Just Because you quote one WD engineer does not mean others do not have a workflow that they follow which has always worked for them.

I am tempted to send my M11D back if this how Leica expects me to format cards. And then what about formatting the IN? Same problem I guess.