M-Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 Limited Revisited Konica Hexar RF Lens

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I recently came upon this thread:

Forum Discussion of M-Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 Limited .. When Film Ruled..

I have had this lens for years and shot it either with an Leica M3, or Zeiss Ikon ZM with an eyepiece magnifier.  I never had issues with focusing and on film it was a good performer.  Here is an picture of my now eighteen year old daughter on Neopan 1600 at EI 640 in TMax developer:

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That got me to wondering how this lens would hold up on the M11 Monochrom using the Visoflex 2.  I shot only at f/1.2 on my morning walk and tried to focus centrally and off center.  Many images were shot with the electronic shutter.  I forgot to mount a neutral density filter.  Anyway, for those few that might be interested in this lens, here is a link to the f/1.2 images from this mornings walk:

M-Hexanon 50mm f/1.2 @ 1.2 on an M11 Monochrom

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[Ecar]

Lovely picture and excellent lens. Although I must say I'm not a big fan of its colour/finish...

[pippy]

Interesting lens.

It would be very curious to see those results obtained - in a 'Back-to-Back' controlled studio test - from this lens (at all apertures) compared with similar images taken using a 7Artisan 50mm f1.1.

I believe they might be very similar indeed. I could well be completely mistaken of course but, still, it might be rather illuminating. I suspect that they are very similar in their optical design......

Philip.

Edited August 22, 2024 by pippy

[Al Brown]

I think 7A was based on the old Bertele Sonnar, just like Zunow and Sonnetar.

Edited August 23, 2024 by Al Brown

[pippy]

3 hours ago, Al Brown said:

I think 7A was based on the old Bertele Sonnar...

Yes; it is.

The problem, however, is that there seems to be a lack of any information regarding the optical design of the Konica other than it being 7 elements / 6 groups (which is the same as the 7A).

Philip.

[adan]

Are we talking about a 50mm - or the 60mm f/1.2?

The 60mm 1999 "replica" appears to be a double-gauss variant - while the 1956 original looks more like a Sonnar-type (solid cemented 3-element group behind the aperture).

But lens designers are allowed to "cross-breed" optical designs when desired - espcially if glass types change over 45 years.

(X-section diagrams for both displayed here: https://yanidel.net/gear/60mm-hexanon-review/ )

[pippy]

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7 minutes ago, adan said:

Are we talking about a 50mm - or the 60mm f/1.2?...

The lens being discussed here, Andy, is the Limited Edition (2001 units) 50mm f1.2 which was released (from what I've been able to find) as a 'package' with a similarly Limited Edition version of the Konica Hexar RF camera in 2001.

There are a quite a few reviews of the lens but - from those I have read / watched (I couldn't take much more!) - they are, without exception, remarkably superficial in their content.

Konica does seem to have been a fan of various Zeiss formulae over the years so it wouldn't come as a surprise to discover the 50 f1.2 was one of them.

Philip.

[Ecar]

I believe this is about the 50/1.2 Limited from 2001, not any of the two 60/1.2 versions...

Here are the optical formulae, respectively for the Konica Hex 50/1.2 and the 7a 50/1.1:

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Quite different - rather double gauss-ish for the Hex and sonnar-ish for the 7a. I have both and their rendering is indeed not the same. The 7a is currently not with me, so I'm unable to do a quick comparison (let alone a controlled studio test...😉).

[fotografr]

I'm not interested in this but you guys might be. 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1863525/

I think it's one of the limited edition remakes.

[Ecar]

1 hour ago, fotografr said:

I'm not interested in this but you guys might be. 

https://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1863525/

I think it's one of the limited edition remakes.

Correct. The seller's account belongs to Westborn Camera - or is somehow tied to them. Also on their eBay shop, but at a higher price of course. There are actually several of these for sale on eBay currently (along with a rare v1), most in excellent condition and at prices lower than they were not too long ago. Seems like a supply glut.

[pippy]

5 hours ago, Ecar said:

Here are the optical formulae, respectively for the Konica Hex 50/1.2 and the 7a 50/1.1:

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Quite different - rather double gauss-ish for the Hex and sonnar-ish for the 7a. I have both and their rendering is indeed not the same...

Thanks for posting the schematics, Enrico, and yes; indeed they are quite different.

If your 7A is on long-term loan and you happen to be popping over to London any time soon let me know and I can lend you one of my 7A lenses!

Philip.

[Ecar]

13 minutes ago, pippy said:

If your 7A is on long-term loan and you happen to be popping over to London any time soon let me know and I can lend you one of my 7A lenses!

Thanks for the kind offer, Philip. It's just that the 7a is currently at my mountain home.

[farnz]

12 hours ago, pippy said:

50mm f1.2 which was released (from what I've been able to find) as a 'package' with a similarly Limited Edition version of the Konica Hexar RF camera in 2001.

Yes it was, in a velvet-covered box along with a Konica Hexar flash.  I have the package, which came without the 50/1.2 lens that had already been 'scavenged', but that was fine because I was really after the equally rare Limited Edition silver Hexar RF camera.  I still have it and am reminded that I need to take it out for a shoot.

(The Hexar RF is the camera that I always felt the M7 should have been: auto film take-up, auto rewind, auto wind-on, 1/4000th shutter speed.) YMMV.

Pete.

[graphlex]

Always wondered if that was a collaboration gone wrong. 

[farnz]

6 hours ago, graphlex said:

Always wondered if that was a collaboration gone wrong. 

Collaboration between who?

Pete

[graphlex]

Leica and Konica.  Remember the big brouhaha about whether the the Hexar’s lens mount was miscalibrated for Leica lenses, as Erwin Puts said. Tempest in a teapot. 

Edited August 24, 2024 by graphlex

[farnz]

Ah okay.  I wasn't aware that there was any collaboration between Leica and Konica since they were competitors but I could be wrong. 

I recall reading that the Helicoid pitch in Konica rangefinder lenses was deliberately made slightly different from the Helicoid pitch in Leica lenses so that people would buy Konica lenses to use with their Hexar RF cameras but I've also read a number of technical documents that debunk this as a myth that was dreamt up by Konica's Marketing department to protect or boost sales. 

Certainly I haven't noticed any mis-focussing when using Hexanon-M lenses with my Leica cameras or, conversely, when using Leica lenses with my Hexar RF so I'm satisfied that the Helicoid pitch is the same for both.

Pete.

[adan]

At the time, there were rumors that Konica hoped that the Hexar RF would entice all-mechanical Leica to choose them as a technology partner for this and other projects.

Both companies were having some rough times then, going it alone.

Leica eventually decided to stick with Panasonic, and Konica merged with Minolta instead.

 

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