Issues mounting a Voigtlander VM lens onto an M2 body

[chinjon]

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I had tried to mount the Voigtlander Color Skopar II 28mm onto my Leica M2, but it seems that the lens does not lock into the body.

I normally use a Voigtlander Nokton Classic II 35mm 1.4 and that will lock into place nicely.

FWIW - the 28mm Color Skopar will lock into my M240, so I having trouble diagnosing if it is the mount on the new Color Skopar that has issues playing nice with older bodies - or my M2's mount is the issue...

thanks in advance for reading!

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[FrozenInTime]

Just loosen the screws on the body mount ring  a little. Mount and remove the lens then tight up the screws..

[chinjon]

On 8/23/2024 at 12:01 AM, mark_s90 said:

How new is the lens?  Had an issue getting my brand new, factory new, voightlander to attach to my M3. Just took alot of turning to get it to mesh together.. Have had issues in the past with OTHER BRANDS of cameras and lenses that wear and tear will take its toll, and change the dimensional tolerances. 

Its brand new - i pre-ordered from CameraQuest when it was announced.

 

I had rarely taken the 28mm off my M240 once I got it, it was pretty much the only lens i've been using, so i doubt there would be wear and tear prior to me trying to mount it to the M2.

I emailed CameraQuest and they told me to send back to them.

I just got it back and its still an issue on my M2.

I'm not exactly sure if they did anything to it, the red alignment dot fell off and I had written that in the note I had sent with the lens, that too was not fixed

[chinjon]

When i say it won't lock in - I can turn the lens and dismount without having to depress the lens mount button

[burchyk]

My friend is having an issue with M6. Zeiss Planar and some Voigtlanders will lock, but not all. Same lenses fit nicely on my M-A with reassuring click. Would be good to try the same lens on another body to pinpoint the problem.

[FrozenInTime]

Clarifying I said before : It's not necessarily a lens issue  - it's likely that the camera body flange has rotated ever so slightly.

Loosen the screws on the camera body a little, until there is enough slack to allow rotation, then find the point where all the lenses lock, then tighten the screws.

[TomB_tx]

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There have also been noted tolerance issues with the width of the locking lug on the body and the width of the mating recess in the lens flange, as well as some instances of a slight burr formed on the edge of the lens recess. I have some lenses that lock fine, but have noticeable rotation play (not a problem) due to a slot to the wide tolerance limit and a lug to the narrow limit. I don't think the design tolerance are shared across manufacturers, so mis-matches are certainly possible even if parts meet each manufacturers specs.

[250swb]

I agree with @TomB_tx it's likely to be a machining burr or slightly narrow slot in the lens flange (measure to confirm). It just needs somebody to enlarge the slot a fraction with a Dremel or try running a sharp knife tip around the edges of the slot if it is a burr. Even within Leica lenses some fit more firmly than others depending on age of the lens and newness of the lens, so some wear-in and some are already loose when the locking tab is engaged. 

[chinjon]

6 hours ago, 250swb said:

I agree with @TomB_tx it's likely to be a machining burr or slightly narrow slot in the lens flange (measure to confirm). It just needs somebody to enlarge the slot a fraction with a Dremel or try running a sharp knife tip around the edges of the slot if it is a burr. Even within Leica lenses some fit more firmly than others depending on age of the lens and newness of the lens, so some wear-in and some are already loose when the locking tab is engaged. 

I have compared the width of those flanges between the Nokton 35 (which does mount) - it seems the 28mm color skopar does have longer flanges.

 

17 hours ago, FrozenInTime said:

Clarifying I said before : It's not necessarily a lens issue  - it's likely that the camera body flange has rotated ever so slightly.

Loosen the screws on the camera body a little, until there is enough slack to allow rotation, then find the point where all the lenses lock, then tighten the screws.

i'll try that - it seems less invasive and destructive than trying to hack away at the flanges to make them fit

[chinjon]

okay i tried what @FrozenInTime in time had suggested - it seemed to have worked at some point - but not sure if i was testing correctly when i tried to see if the lens was locked. I did a few more adjustments with the screws on the body's mount - no dice - still the same issue

[Eli4-2]

I couldn't get this lens to lock onto my M4-2, so I returned it and have a new one coming today. It appeared as if the lens just couldn't fully twist all the way to the locking point. Hoping this new copy works. 

[chinjon]

30 minutes ago, Eli4-2 said:

I couldn't get this lens to lock onto my M4-2, so I returned it and have a new one coming today. It appeared as if the lens just couldn't fully twist all the way to the locking point. Hoping this new copy works. 

hope yours works! yeah that's exactly what im seeing with mine - i can twist it into place - but i can also unscrew it without pressing the lens lock button.

 

i might contact camera quest again - but i don't know - nothing was done when I first sent it out. 28mm is my primary focal length - its pretty annoying not having one around for a number of weeks. i might also just settle with it and just only use it on my M240.

[chinjon]

On 9/23/2024 at 9:21 PM, burchyk said:

My friend is having an issue with M6. Zeiss Planar and some Voigtlanders will lock, but not all. Same lenses fit nicely on my M-A with reassuring click. Would be good to try the same lens on another body to pinpoint the problem.

i have tried it on my M240 - where it does lock. I'll see if I can run into any other Leica users in NYC (where I live) - or maybe even try it on some bodies at B&H or Adorama.

[250swb]

4 hours ago, chinjon said:

 

 

i'll try that - it seems less invasive and destructive than trying to hack away at the flanges to make them fit

Sorry you assumed adjusting the rebate in the lens flanges was hacking away at it. Of course one persons careful considered and measured response with a Dremel is another's all out Armageddon and total destruction, so forget what I said for the sake of the lens, you need help from somebody you can pay money to.

[TomB_tx]

Just to be sure we are discussing the same features on the body latch and lens flange:

Here you can see the latch mechanism with a lens mounted and latched on my M2:

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On the M2 body here's the catch that has to engage the lens to latch it into place. It's the small lug with red dot connected to the lens release button. The width of that lug as indicated by the arrows on the picture has to be narrow enough to fit into the slot on the lens flange.

Here's a mating M lens flange showing the machined slot that must be wide enough for the body catch lug to fit into the width shown by the drawn arrows on this picture:

Look especially at the edges of this slot to see if a lip (or burr) has rolled into the width that could prevent the lug from easily fitting.

 

[chinjon]

16 hours ago, 250swb said:

Sorry you assumed adjusting the rebate in the lens flanges was hacking away at it. Of course one persons careful considered and measured response with a Dremel is another's all out Armageddon and total destruction, so forget what I said for the sake of the lens, you need help from somebody you can pay money to.

Well, i've recently got laid off from my tech position - so i'm not willing to dremel my lens at the moment because I wouldn't be able to purchase at this very moment, but as soon as I get a well paying job again i'll make a video for you showing that i indeed am willing to. but i thank you for your input, your time and contributions to this thread.

[chinjon]

@TomB_tx thank you so much for the annotated photos

I had assumed the "flanges" were these, the "teeth" around the edges of the rear element.

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in the case of the problematic 28mm lens - that "lip" does seem to have a side/edge that is not totally filed down. I will attempt to level it out.

I very much appreciate the clarification - and the annotated photos!

[TomB_tx]

2 minutes ago, chinjon said:

I had assumed the "flanges" were these, the "teeth" around the edges of the rear element.

The bayonet "teeth" you circled have two functions: Primarily they hold the lens tight to the body flange as a flat spring behind the body flange pulls them tight. One of the "teeth" will be different length on different focal length lenses, as it activates the frame line selection to match the lens. So when you compare a 28 to a 35 or 50 you will see a difference. There are 3 variations: 28 & 90 use one, 35 & 135 a second, and 50 & 75 the third.

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Hallo,

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