Summicron 35mm 8 elements black paint variations

[shirubadanieru]

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Hi Leica collector community, I’d like to get your wisdom on the variations for the Summicron 8 elements in black paint. I know there are at least 3? Variations but not quite sure what are the main differences, and if some are more desirable over the others. Can someone please share with me? 

[lct]

I know of only 2 but i'm no collector.
11307 black paint Summicron 35/2 v1 for M2:

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11104 black paint Summicron 35/2 v1 for M3:

 

 

Edited August 19, 2024 by lct

[shirubadanieru]

4 hours ago, lct said:

I know of only 2 but i'm no collector.
11307 black paint Summicron 35/2 v1 for M2:

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

11104 black paint Summicron 35/2 v1 for M3:

 

 

Thank you! From what I was able to find there are the below versions:

- brass mount black paint vs non brass

- brass infinity lock vs silver Chrome

- red lettering vs yellow lettering

- black paint vs black chrome

 

 this is so far what I was able to identify but don’t know which serials correspond to which variation not which is the most desirable vs least desirable ones.

[shirubadanieru]

45 minutes ago, Al Brown said:

 

Thank you. I’d read this but it was still not clear to me all the black paint variations and when the changes occurred etc. 

[grahamc]

3 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

Thank you! From what I was able to find there are the below versions:

- brass mount black paint vs non brass

- brass infinity lock vs silver Chrome

- red lettering vs yellow lettering

- black paint vs black chrome

 

 this is so far what I was able to identify but don’t know which serials correspond to which variation not which is the most desirable vs least desirable ones.

Hi Dan.

Nice topic 

I was under the impression that there's no fully black paint version of this lens - i.e. those with 'black paint' were black chromed with certain black paint parts eg in some cases the holding screws / the top ring  / infinity lock.  In saying that, I now vaguely remember seeing that perhaps the very earliest ones were literally black painted over chrome-produced lenses (?).  ie They look like crap now with silver showing through the paint (rather than brass).  Please link me to any fully black painted ones if you know of any to jog my memory. 

Also to note (if useful to your search) is that publicly available 'black' serial number batches available (such as this forum's wiki) are always not correct.  For example, I have a #209 xxxx red scale made in Wetzlar lens.  This batch of black is not listed publicly however Wetzlar confirmed it is indeed factory black and confirm the existence of others from 209 also - with goggles and without they all share red scale, predominantly finished in black chrome with certain black paint parts (including painted brass infinity lock) .

 

 

Edited August 20, 2024 by grahamc

[shirubadanieru]

Just to share, as I wanted clarity, I visited a Leica collector's shop and talked with the person there. I was told the below:

 

There are several versions, reason why these changes occured is unknown. Rarity/value wise it would be something like below:

Early version (canada): fully black paint (inc. mount), red lettering, brass lock (extremely rare & very hard to find)

↓

Germany version: black paint including mount, with black chrome in the middle body, red lettering, brass lock

↓

same as above but with black paint goggles

↓

Germany version: black chrome (mount in silver), red lettering, brass lock

↓

Variations of black chrome, yellow lettering, silver lock are the least desirable & also the least valuable from a collection standpoint.

[frame-it]

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6 hours ago, grahamc said:

Hi Dan.

Nice topic 

I was under the impression that there's no fully black paint version of this lens - i.e. those with 'black paint' were black chromed with certain black paint parts eg in some cases the holding screws / the top ring  / infinity lock.  In saying that, I now vaguely remember seeing that perhaps the very earliest ones were literally black painted over chrome-produced lenses (?).  ie They look like crap now with silver showing through the paint (rather than brass).  Please link me to any fully black painted ones if you know of any to jog my memory. 

Also to note (if useful to your search) is that publicly available 'black' serial number batches available (such as this forum's wiki) are always not correct.  For example, I have a #209 xxxx red scale made in Wetzlar lens.  This batch of black is not listed publicly however Wetzlar confirmed it is indeed factory black and confirm the existence of others from 209 also - with goggles and without they all share red scale, predominantly finished in black chrome with certain black paint parts (including painted brass infinity lock) .

 

 

there is a #1970970 for sale here summicron 8 element 1st version [ translates as Gen 1.]

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[shirubadanieru]

7 minutes ago, frame-it said:

there is a #1970970 for sale here summicron 8 element 1st version [ translates as Gen 1.]

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Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

this is a regular silver chrome though right? we're discussing the black paint versions.

[frame-it]

2 hours ago, shirubadanieru said:

this is a regular silver chrome though right? we're discussing the black paint versions.

sure but i was replying to grahamc, the context was the serial number of a 1st version