is it me, or is ebay cr@p?

[plasticman]

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Just wondering how any of you deal with ebay auctions?

 

I recently decided I'd like to get hold of a good condition (mint) Xpan II (ok not a Leica, but that's not really relevant), and so I finally signed-up with an ebay account and also signed-up for a Paypal client account (ie: not a seller's account).

 

But it seems to me that so far I've barely seen any sellers that I can actually trust AT ALL, and frankly the single one I felt I could trust would only accept verifed Paypal members.

Now I have nothing against the verification process - only that this means it will be at least a month before I can realistically use Paypal for a camera transaction (at best), but even those auctions that look rather dubious the seller will only accept verified Paypal transactions, while I don't see any guarantees from their side that they will actually supply the item which I'll be paying them a couple of thousand dollars for.

 

What's more, so far I'd say that the MAJORITY of Xpan auctions I've looked at are OBVIOUS FAKES. I always thought that there must be some kind of screening process on ebay, but now I'm frankly amazed to say that the vast majority of what I've looked at are scams.

 

Disappointed to say the least.

[earleygallery]

I've used ebay extensively for a number of years now, and bar one or two minor hiccups I've not had any problems.

 

Why do you say the listings are 'obvious fakes' ?

 

For more expensive purchases I will always attempt some correspondence with the seller (there are people at the other end of the internet) and ask questions - you can easily tell by the responses if they know about the product they're selling. Explain you a re a new bidder and serious about buying the item.

 

Read the feedback, check how long they've been registered with e bay, where are they located etc.

 

As a seller they are probably more wary or you as a new bidder - it seems a lot of people get their kicks from putting bogus high bids in for stuff.

 

There is also credit card fraud, i.e. why sellers prefer verified paypal members!

 

At the end of the day, think of e bay as a glorified classified ad. Would you be happy sending X £/$ to somone who has put an ad in the paper? Take the same precautions, e bay certainly gives a lot more insight/protection than buying from the classifieds but you are right, there are also risks.

[stunsworth]

Use your common sense. Buy from users with good feedback and sales of the type of kit you want to buy. Ask questions if you're not sure and see what sort of answers you get.

 

There are fraudsters out there, but with a little care you can avoid them. Just remember that if a deal sounds too good to be true, it more than likely is. Also many people overrate the equipment, so expect to see something described as mint when it's realy E+ or E++.

[chris_livsey]

Exercise due care and diligence.

You are correct in seeing a great deal of dubious offers. Hasselblad H1/H2 are another common target. Some items just are.

With care there are good honest sellers out there. Do your homework, a seller had a 50+ rating but when you looked it was built up in 30 days buying of hairslides and pencils- you avoid.

I have just completed on buying a Leica ( lets put this thread on topic) Elmarit M 90mm. Private seller, great communication, I hope on both sides, lens described as v good I call it mint and for £200 less than the best dealer price I found in a couple of months looking.

Hang in there it's a game you play with with real money at risk. If you don't feel confident to deal in that market walk away, it isn't compulsory, there are lots of reputable, outside e-bay, dealers to trade with.

So not it's not crap although some parts may be rotten.

[biglouis]

Perhaps e-Bay is not for you?

 

LouisB

[marknorton]

Ebay is most certainly not as you describe, but like any other marketplace, you need to take a little care; know your item, research your seller, bid only what you'd be happy to pay, pay promptly. If you're a seller, describe the item accurately, keep in constant touch with your buyer, don't over-charge for shipping.

 

A quick look for XPAN showed this:

 

Hasselblad Xpan II (2) Panoramic Camera & 45mm Lens Kit on eBay, also, 35mm Rangefinder, Film Cameras, Photography (end time 15-Dec-07 19:53:22 GMT)

 

which looks absolutely genuine and if I was in the market for one, I'd be happy to bid on this item but not with 2 days left to go, more like 5 seconds.

 

One way to check your seller is to ask a question about the item which shows you know about it and assess your seller on the response.

 

As for PayPal, it's a great way to pay - and be paid - for stuff and the whole verified thing is to provide people you pay and pay you with some protection. You may think others you deal with may be scam-artists; they're entitled to think exactly the same about you!

 

The one thing I don't like about PayPal is when sellers charge a fee for accepting it; I don't, it's a cost of doing business and I would much rather be paid by PayPal than mess with personal cheques and money orders.

[plasticman]

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Thanks all of you for your considered replies - naturally my initial comment was based on some frustration and also a degree of surprise at the number of (what I considered were) obvious scam sales. For some reason I had an idea that ebay provided more screening - but on reflection this should come from vigilant users.

 

I did ask questions in cases where I thought the seller might be genuine - including how many shutter actuations, for instance - interestingly, none of the sellers knew how to check this without my help.

 

As for Paypal - I've used their service for one-off purchases over a number of years, and when I signed-up for an account they already had all my card details on record. For some naive reason I assumed that their service was in some way itself a guarantee of both where the money was coming from, and to whom it was being paid.

 

Mark - how on earth did my exhaustive search not show-up that example? Thank you very much! I'll keep an eye on it!

[Shootist]

Just wondering how any of you deal with ebay auctions?

 

I recently decided I'd like to get hold of a good condition (mint) Xpan II (ok not a Leica, but that's not really relevant), and so I finally signed-up with an ebay account and also signed-up for a Paypal client account (ie: not a seller's account).

 

But it seems to me that so far I've barely seen any sellers that I can actually trust AT ALL, and frankly the single one I felt I could trust would only accept verifed Paypal members.

Now I have nothing against the verification process - only that this means it will be at least a month before I can realistically use Paypal for a camera transaction (at best), but even those auctions that look rather dubious the seller will only accept verified Paypal transactions, while I don't see any guarantees from their side that they will actually supply the item which I'll be paying them a couple of thousand dollars for.

 

What's more, so far I'd say that the MAJORITY of Xpan auctions I've looked at are OBVIOUS FAKES. I always thought that there must be some kind of screening process on ebay, but now I'm frankly amazed to say that the vast majority of what I've looked at are scams.

 

Disappointed to say the least.

What makes you think you can't trust the sellers?

To get verified with PP only mean you have to give them a checking account #. Persoanlly I didn't see the need for this so PP always listed me as UnVerified even though I had done over $10000 worth of buying on eBay in a 1.5 year span using a PP with a credit card. When I started selling some things I opened a second checking account specifically to use with PP. It has a minimal balance in the account.

Over the last 3 years I have bought and sold many items, Leica, Nikon and computer parts, through eBay and the only time I had a problem was when I was selling a M3 and someone from China won the auction when I clearly stated NO bids from outside the USA. They even asked if I could mark the package as a gift so they wouldn't need to pay tax on it.

After contacting eBay and explaining what happen they credited me all fees and I relisted it. They also banned the person that made the bid.

[nemeng]

FWIW you're not alone being suspicious about eBay. A simple google search will confirm this.

 

The good news is that you can easily buy equipment online other ways - eg. KEH Camera (and B&H and other online 2nd hand dealers).

 

I personally only use SleazeBay very occasionally for < $50 items (DVDs, books, lens hoods or caps etc.). That way if you get caught by a scammer then it's no big deal.

[peter_n]

What Mark said in post #6. No point in repeating it. I've bought most of my stuff on eBay and except for getting a dodgy J-8 from Russia have been well pleased. PayPal makes it very easy & inexpensive to tranfer funds (especially to a foreign country) and all you need to do is your due diligence on the seller and you should be OK.

[spydrxx]

By your title...it's you .

 

Seriously though, I've bought and sold thousands of dollars of camera gear over the years on Ebay, with only three transactions not living up to expectations; 1) a buyer wanted to change the terms of delivery after he won the auction and refused to pay; 2) I won a Noctilux in what turned out to be a sting operation...authorities returned my money; 3) The lens on a Rolleiflex I wanted was less "mint" than advertised, but everything else about the camera was materially better.

 

I encourage you to exercise due diligence and show a little patience...it usually pays handsome dividends over time. There are lots of ways to reduce your risk, take a deep breath and learn about them...you will have better results. Assume nothing!

[hankg]

I've had 100's of successful transactions on eBay. Maybe in 3 or 4 transactions out of almost 400 I had to do some negotiating after the sale to return an item or get a partial refund because the item was not as described. In all cases I was able to resolve the matter successfully.

 

Some cautionary notes. Fraud is rampant you must use due diligence. On some items eBay is a lousy deal you will do better at online retailers. I'm always mystified to see people paying almost the same for a used Canon lens of sketchy provenance as they would pay at B&H for a new lens. The rise of classified sections on sites like this makes ebay less attractive.

 

If you are careful and use sniping software to bid ebay can be very valuable resource.

[Stuart Richardson]

I did ask questions in cases where I thought the seller might be genuine - including how many shutter actuations, for instance - interestingly, none of the sellers knew how to check this without my help.

 

I didn't know this until right now, and I shoot with an Xpan II. It's not in the manual! Or at least, I don't remember it. But eBay is great. I bought my 203FE from a Swedish man by paying him via a wire transfer to a swiss bank account. He shipped the camera to where I was staying in Japan. It was definitely a higher risk transaction, but I got a 203FE for a very good price, in perfect condition. Ebay was the only thing that could have made that happen. While the transaction was quite risky on paper, conversation with the seller led to very clear reasons why he was selling it, why the account was Swiss, and how the transaction was safe. There was still risk, but it was manageable. Once you learn to read between the lines, it is pretty easy to see who is a scammer, who is honest and who is in between.

[leitz_not_leica]

It's the most efficient market in the World.

[Hacker]

I would not have been able to get the M-Hexanon and UC-Hexanon lenses NEW if not for Ebay! Also, with prices listed, I know roughly how much I should pay for things.

[farnz]

Mani,

 

For a sum like $2,000 I would always use escrow services, which will be risk free (providing that you don't use an escrow service offerred by a seller). There will be a small charge, but imho money well spent to know that an independent and trusted third party must receive the money and the goods before he will forward them to the respective parties.

 

I've done more than 400 transactions on eBay and only one, for £30, turned sour. If you're careful it can be a rewarding experience. I won't trade with anyone with less than a 99% feedback rating, I always check out their previous transactions and I normally ask questions that only a bona fide seller will be able to answer.

 

Pete.

[marknorton]

As if to show faith in ebay, I spent $3500 on two new Nikon lenses yesterday, $1000 saving compared to the best prices I'd found elsewhere.

[leicaman94044]

I've always had great luck with ebay. There are scumbags, of course, but your intuition and careful reading of the ads should fetter out the legitimate sellers from the scheisters.

 

I had a recent experience buying a Leica 19mm 2.8 R lens (latest version) from Willoughby's on Oct. 31. Buyer beware! Lens advertised as 9+, factory refurbished. I used the buy it now option and paid $1549 as the price was fair for a lens described as 9+, factory refurbished.

 

Received the lens two weeks later and it had dust inside the front lens element as well as a metal filing behind the 1'st element. I was not amused. I phoned Andy at Willoughbys immediately and asked for a refund as the condition of the lens was misrepresented. He said they didn't give refunds and declined to offer a replacement... which is the policy indicated in their ad on ebay.

 

I overnighted the lens back to Willoughby's the following day and explained that I bought the lens to cover an event in December in Ecuador, and that I would not have bought it had I known it's true condition. Andy said the lens would be sent to Leica and he would expedite matters.

 

I phoned last Friday and asked as to the status of the repair as I had heard nothing and my departure date was a week away. Andy said the lens was on it's way back from Leica and he'd overnight it to me on Monday (this past Monday).

 

Sunday morning, I received the following email from Andy:

"'Andy '" <andy@willoughbys.com>

Subject: RE: Leica 19mm Elmarit lens

Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 14:56:28 -0500

 

The lens is currently in Germany and according to them it will probably take another 8 days to finish the work.

 

Andy doesn't work on Sunday.

 

I phoned Willoughby's again and asked MIke (store manager) for a refund. His answer floored me! "Since you bought this lens off ebay, you have to deal with Andy as he has nothing to do with us."

 

I immediately phoned paypal and gave them the history of the transaction. They were not amused. Paypal is owned by ebay and they are cracking down on fraud in a big way. As soon as I provided them with the Fed Ex tracking number from overnighting the lens back to Willoughbys, the ball was rolling and I had my full refund within hours.

 

Yes, six weeks went by and I never received the lens I paid for... but I'm more than satisfied that I received a full refund after bringing this to the attention of paypal. Every paypal employee I dealt with was professional, courteous and sincere in their efforts to resolve the issue.

 

Could this have been avoided? Possibly not. Misrepresentation of ads is something ebay is cracking down on. This is the first time in years that I have had any issue with an ebay purchase. The fact that it was resolved to my satisfaction is reassuring... and I'd gladly purchase items from ebay again.

 

Lawrence

[hankg]

I had a recent experience buying a Leica 19mm 2.8 R lens (latest version) from Willoughby's on Oct. 31. Buyer beware!

 

Never do business with a retailer without checking resellerratings.com

 

Willoughby's Customer Ratings, Reviews and Prices at ResellerRatings

 

I would be amazed if their eBay feedback was any better.

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[plasticman]

Yup - it probably is me

 

Anyway, I guess that patience, patience, patience is the answer.

 

Ebay certainly isn't for anyone in a hurry - I realize now there's a lot to learn about how to weed-out the scams, and naturally I'm very aware that sellers can be equally suspicious of me as I am of them; after all, I have 0 feedback and 0 transactions.

 

Mark - unfortunately the seller for that excellent link you gave me was not willing to ship outside of the UK - which is a pity because the camera looks good and, with 4 hours to go at this point, it's still a pretty good price.

 

Guess I'll simply have to keep looking... although it's more than possible that someone like Ffordes in the UK or Photographica in Copenhagen will be the ultimate source for this particular camera-lust.

 

Thanks all!